] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, AUGUST 27 - SEPTEMBER 1, 1998 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] Hi All! Sorry it's been such an eon since the last digest, but I've been having problems with my modem and I have therefore been without 'Net access for the last couple of days...Everything is "hunky-dunky" (as S.K. "Cuddles" Sakall would say) now. -- Dave ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 11:45:51 -0400 From: Jane Subject: Munchkins My grandmother told me many years ago that she knew a munchkin in the Wizard of Oz. She is from Muncie, Indiana. Her name was Mary Kiester or Kester. Also her maiden name was Delp. We are trying to find out which munchkin she was. My grandmother also said she had one line in the movie. Do have any suggestions on how I would go about finding which munchkin she is? Thanks. An Oz fan ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 19:48:57 -0400 From: David Levitan Subject: Ozzy Digest Archive X-Accept-Language: ru My archive will be down for the next several days due to a disk crash at my ISP. My ISP doesn't know when everything will be back up again, hopefully soon. -- David Levitan wizardofoz@bigfoot.com ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 00:06:09 +0000 (GMT) From: David Hulan Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-26-98 Tyler: >If we want to get really technical, the Wizard did not "enter" the Emerald >City in _DotWiz_ either. He was transported directly there. As far as we >can tell, he did not enter the EC in the standard way until _Emerald City_. I guess it depends on how you define "enter." It seems to me that "to go from a place outside to a place inside" is a reasonable definition of the word, whether one does it by walking, riding, flying, or magical transportation. And if you want to get _really, really_ technical, he went outside the city gates in _DotWiz_ to watch the games and races, and re-entered after they were over. (He isn't mentioned by name, but Baum says "they all," in a context that clearly includes Dorothy, the Wizard, Zeb, Jim, and Eureka as well as Ozma.) Ruth: >A pleasanter note -- I checked the dates for the two equestrienne- >Ozma drawings, and the "Emerald City" cover is 1929, and the "Yellow >Knight" was 1930, so it's not surprising that the two are similar. I hadn't checked the dates, but I was pretty sure that was the case. You may remember my theory that it was when Mogodore lusted after Ozma in _Jack Pumpkinhead_ that Neill decided to start depicting her in fitted clothes rather than the voluminous draperies she'd always worn before, showing a figure that was clearly at least teen-age rather than a little girl. I got this from a bit of a study of the books, and there's an abrupt change in the way Neill dresses Ozma between _Jack Pumpkinhead_ and _Yellow Knight_. Since the equestrienne Ozma of the redone EC cover is wearing a fitted outfit, that places it after JP chronologically. (The same is true of the "slinky Ozma" cover for _Ozma_.) Mark Anthony: >you read it write the fabulous forty are now forty one why forty one cause >at >http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Lair/7277 > >you can now read dave l hardenbooks (yes our dave whose last name is >really lister) red dwarf in oz >so point your browsers to power star and read daves new oz story Nothing against Dave's book, but it isn't the forty-first Oz book; even new Oz books by FF authors, some of which are very good (like _Forbidden Fountain_), don't add to the canon, much less books by new authors (including myself). Still, it's nice to know that _Red Dwarf in Oz_ is available for reading. David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 19:16:47 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-20-98 David: William Hope Hodgson wrote "The Voice in the Night," which was overshadowed (deservedly) by the film version, _Matango_, by Ishiro Honda, which the dufuses who released it in the U.S. called "Attack of the Mushroom People" and only put it on late night TV. The screenwriter, Takeshi Kimura, thought he'd said all he had to say, so he started using the gender-neutral name Kaoru Mabuchi. He eventually died in isolation in a Tokyo appartment, making the film all the more prophetic. Dave: I'm quite ashmaed. I always forget about Ozma's birthday. I sent chapters 1 and seven (they actually only wanted the first) of _Tip of Oz_ to Linda A. Chester & Associates, a publishing agent interested in seeking new young voices. That was yesterday (Wednesday the 27th). Scott ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 21:11:46 -0400 From: "J. L. Bell" Subject: all aglow in Oz Sender: "J. L. Bell" About the "barefoot Button-Bright" cover, Dave Hulan wrote: <> The other possibility in my mind was a Copp, Clark or other foreign edition. It had that "Who in the world would find this attractive?" quality of some foreign book designs. Since you say R&L's redone covers covered even HUNGRY TIGER, I feel secure in my memory that that spine did say Reilly & Lee. As a "white-cover baby" I had the benefit of seeing ROAD with a colorized picture of the arrival at Jack Pumpkinhead's house on the cover. One of Neill's best drawings, and twice as natural. Lovely! Another trivia question for all, free of both Club encumbrances and dependence on obscure editions: Name three objects in three different Baum Oz books that are made of radium. J. L. Bell JnoLBell@compuserve.com ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 14:07:24 -0400 (EDT) From: LuVCHACHI@aol.com Subject: message board Hi, whoever posted the message about the Oz message board I tried the address you posted and it didn't work...could you post it again? Thanx! ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 21:33:41 -0400 From: Richard Bauman Subject: Today's Oz Growls Sender: Richard Bauman Back from the wilds of Oregon and Washington. Actually, I attended my 45th high school reunion in Portland, among other things. Had a great time. I was also in Long Beach, WA and they have a book store there called "Sandpiper Books." They had just purchased someone's Oz collection. I didn't really have time to look it over but there were a lot of books. They do have email and I believe a web page where they offer everything they have that is over $25. Their email address is: sandpiper@willapabay.org IMHO - Meghan is much nicer than "LuVCHACHI." The latter sounds like a character out of "Star Trek." Tyler - Thanks for archiving the Digests. Now I can dump mine and regain a bunch of space. Barbara DeJohn - If you think summer went fast, wait until you get to Hulan's age. :) Regards, Old Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 23:04:23 -0400 (EDT) From: Ozisus@aol.com Subject: Oz post In case you all haven't heard, Hallmark Entertainment is producing The Land of Oz for ABC, May 1999. I'll pass along more details as I learn them. I heard about it when we first signed the deal (I work for Hallmark) but only recently have begun to see us include enough references to it in print to be confident it is moving forward. FYI, Hallmark Entertainment productions are not Hallmark Hall of Fame presentations. We have a subsidiary that makes all sorts of stuff for TV. Recently Gulliver's Travels, Merlin, Odyssey, Moby Dick... There is a long line of kids classics set for the next year. Jane Albright ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 01 Sep 98 22:43:38 (PDT) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things Bear wrote: >Tyler - Thanks for archiving the Digests. Now I can dump mine and regain a >bunch of space. Whoops...I'd better update the FAQ again... :) Jane wrote: >In case you all haven't heard, Hallmark Entertainment is producing The Land >of Oz for ABC, May 1999. Looks like my VCR is going to be busy in late '98 - early '99 with _Cats_ (A.L. Webber) in November, _Red Dwarf_ Series VIII in January(?) and _Land of Oz_ in May! :) -- Dave ====================================================================== -- Dave **************************************************************************** Dave Hardenbrook, DaveH47@delphi.com, http://people.delphi.com/DaveH47/ "I like to define humor as the affectionate communication of insight." -- Leo Rosten, introduction to _Oh K*A*P*L*A*N, My K*A*P*L*A*N_ ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, SEPTEMBER 2, 1998 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 01 Sep 1998 08:34:25 -0400 From: "J. L. Bell" Subject: LOST PRINCESS OF OZ, for starters Sender: "J. L. Bell" Kudos to Ruth Berman for noting the likeness between a 1930 YELLOW KNIGHT drawing of Ozma on the Sawhorse and the picture that appeared on EMERALD CITY covers starting the year before. A new picture appeared on OZMA about the same time, of the royal princess opening curtains (the "slinky Ozma"). I looked in the late 1920s books for a b/w counterpart, but couldn't find one. Have others had the same luck? Interesting analysis of Neill's Ozma costuming, David Hulan. Now to LOST PRINCESS. In his introduction for SCARECROW, Baum wrote, "Dorothy has promised me that Button-Bright and the three girls are sure to encounter, in the near future, some marvelous adventures in the Land of Oz, which I hope to be permitted to relate to you in the next Oz book." As we know, Baum was unable to do that. Instead, he published RINKITINK. In the introduction to that book, Baum wrote: "If I am permitted to write another Oz book it will tell of some thrilling adventures encountered by Dorothy, Betsy Bobbin, Trot and the Patchwork Girl right in the Land of Oz, and how they discovered some amazing creatures that could never have existed outside a fairyland. I have an idea that about the time you are reading this story of Rinkitink I shall be writing that story of Adventures in Oz." In both cases, it's clear that Baum was describing LOST PRINCESS, an idea or manuscript still in development. What made him fall behind his plans for writing the girls' adventures after SCARECROW? We know he faced both health and business crises. In addition, it might have been harder than Baum expected to narrate Ozma's disappearance as a mystery story [more about that later]. Now for an Oz-as-history analysis of the delay in publishing LOST PRINCESS: I'm struck by how Baum twice used the term "permitted" in these book introductions. From whom would the Royal Historian have to get permission to write LOST PRINCESS? Why, from Princess Ozma, of course. It's conceivable that benevolent despot suppressed the story of Ugu's thefts and kidnapping--at least until she'd developed ways to prevent folks from repeating those crimes. I can imagine a wireless telegraph conversation like this: "I'm sorry, Mr. Baum, but Ozma says nobody must read our adventures rescuing her jes' yet." "But the children are asking me for a new book. Not to mention Mr. Reilly and Mr. Britton." "I s'pose you could tell them about the time a few years back when the Wizard and I rescued the King an' Queen of Pingaree from that wicked ol' King Ruggedo." "I thought Ruggedo isn't a king anymore." "He isn't." "Is Pingaree part of Oz?" "No, it's off in the ocean." "Was it an exciting adventure for you?" "Not really. But it was exciting for Inga." "Who's Inga?" "He's the boy at the start of the story. You see,..." Meanwhile, Ozma could have been honing her magical skills, adding to what she came by naturally--see David Hulan's essay "ARE YOU A GOOD RULER OR A BAD RULER? An inquiry into the quality of Ozma's governance". One logical source of her added, non-innate powers is the material confiscated from Ugu's workshop [303], which he'd inherited from the ancestor Vig calls "the greatest wizard and sorcerer who has ever lived" [174--Melody Grandy, would this be Wam?]. Incidentally, Baum's introduction for LOST PRINCESS abandons the pretense of his previous two prefaces that he's simply a historian. Instead, he presents the new story as a fiction he imagined in response to a little girl's question, and provides a rather high-handed paean to our imaginations. Baum seems to be writing not really "To My Readers" but to adults, as in WIZARD, issuing an apologia for his profession that his readers really don't need. J. L. Bell JnoLBell@compuserve.com ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 01 Sep 1998 10:45:04 -0400 (EDT) From: LuVCHACHI@aol.com Subject: Oz and The X-files? One of my friends recieves an X-Files mailing list. One of the resent messages she got she sent me me and I found it interesting: Turns out that not only are they gonna kiss, not only is it gonna be in real- time, & not only is it gonna be so friggin' cool, but the third ep of season 6 is gonna be based on The Wizard of Oz!!!!!!!!!!!! How cool is that ?! check out these sites if you wanna hear about it: http://www.calendarlive.com/HOME/CALENDARLIVE/TVENT/t000078240.html http://www.mrshowbiz.com/news/todays_stories/980828/xfiles082898.html Is it just me or can any of you not imagine an episode of the X-Files based on Oz? Just thought I'd share this bit of information! ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 01 Sep 1998 12:58:44 -0400 (EDT) From: RMorris306@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 08-14-98 I've been doing a lot of traveling last month and only now am getting caught up on some points...so my apologies if I raise points others already have: Scott Olsen wrote: << Would it have been better for Oz if the picture would have never been made (or not as popular)? Would it have been better if a poor, forgotten, motion picture had been made?>> Uh, it was. The Larry Semon/Oliver Hardy movie, remember? << Speaking of which, anyone remember _The Lord of the Rings_ movie that ended about 2/3 of the way through the story?>> Well, that happens with very episodic novels...Disney's PINOCCHIO left out at least 80% of Collodi's original, too. For that matter, most movies of GULLIVER'S TRAVELS have stopped after the first (or sometimes the first two) of the sections. (The only use of Laputa I recall was in a Japanese anime movie by that name, without Gulliver...) <> Well, people still sing Jane Taylor(?)'s original "Twinkle, Twinkle, Little Star," too... David Hulan wrote (and I swear I didn't look at the original answers!): <> I don't think Jenny Jump (even before being temporarily(?) deaged) counts as an adult, but you seemed to be careful to avoid using "woman" or "adult HUMAN female." So my guess would be Billina. (Eureka was female, as were probably at least some of the Nine Tiny Piglets, but they weren't adult.) <> I assume you're not including "Queer Visitors from the Land of Oz" in which the Scarecrow and the Tin Woodman (among others) visit the Gale farm? That would be Santa Claus! <> The original Guardian of the Gates? (Since Ozma, or maybe Jinjur, permanently opened the gates, he may have been laid off. Jack Snow had Omby Amby take over the position...) <> Probably "The Land of Oz," as Tip. Rich Morrissey ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 01 Sep 1998 09:42:51 -0700 From: "Weisberg, Larry" Subject: RE: Ozzy Digest, 09-01-98 To Jane : Check out Stephen Cox's wonderful book "The Munchkins of Oz." If you can't find it in your local library, I have a link to it at: http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Meadows/6188/books-ozmisc.html Ozzily yours... Larry Weisberg ldweisberg@geocities.com )|( (o o) ----------------------------------ooO-(_)-Ooo------------------------------- ------ "Welcome to Oz" http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Bungalow/2525 Also consider visiting "WEISBERG on the WEB" http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Meadows/6188 ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 01 Sep 1998 13:05:22 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-01-98 There is a new film bearing the title _Under the Rainbow_ in the works. I don't know if there is any Oz connection, but it is a production of Jovian Pictures (an amateur filmmaking group based in Bloomington, Indiana) and Bunk Films (another troup based in Indianapolis that I am planning to join). Here is the official URL for the film, directed by Carl James: http://www.marqueznet.com/bunk/films/rainbow/ It is an SF-drama about four youths (3 men, one woman) born in a starship with a crew of thirty going to Earth for the first time. Scott ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 01 Sep 1998 13:13:15 -0600 (CST) From: Ruth Berman Subject: ozzy digest Some "Lost Princess" comments: I referred a while back to David L. Greene's article on "Baum's Later Oz Books" ("Bugle," Vol. 16 #1). It has some discussion of how Baum wrote "Lost Princess" (as shown in surviving correspondence with the publishers). Initially, he was planning a book that would be called something like "The Three Girls in Oz," and would have Dorothy, Betsy, and Trot adventuring together in a journey around Oz. Michael Riley's "Beyond Oz" book comments that "Lost Princess" was the first Oz book to be set in the opening chapter in the Emerald City, and he suggests that, having explored the border areas outside Oz to see how far he could get away from the kids' demand for Oz while technically still satisfying it (and reaching what was probably maximum distance in the last book of the exploration group, "Rinkitink," where he was rewriting an actual non-Oz book), he had now decided that he really did want to explore Oz in detail himself. All of his last few Oz books are set entirely in Oz and have plots of having characters go out to explore sections of the country. In the others, the exploration was given some motive other than simply wanting to go and explore, and in the process of writing what would have been "The 3 Girls," he came up with the "lost princess" element to give them a reason to go exploring. (Also in the process, he added a lot more people to go off exploring with them, and wound up having essentially nothing for Betsy and Trot to do in the story, which seems a pity. It might have been a good idea if he'd left them out, maybe by sending them off on some of the other search parties, but perhaps he kept thinking that he'd find something for them to do in the course of the story, and hoped that he'd find some moments to spend narrative time dramatizing the close friendship that he meant to show as having grown among them. By the time he'd realized that the task of finding Ozma was really compelling which characters were getting spotlighted, he was perhaps a good way into the story, and didn't want to go back and excise the two of the three who'd become extraneous to the story.) In the Irrelevant Episode dept (I keep reversing the initialese for this and wanting to call the type Extraneous Incidents), the most notable example in "Lost Princess" is the visit to the Thists. Dan Mannix had an article in the "Bugle" about the influence of Wagner's Ring Cycle on Baum, mostly in terms of the Nome King as similar to similar to the gold-greedy Alberich the Dwarf, but he also suggested that the point of the visit to the Thists might have been getting to run a musical mechanical dragon through the scene out of fondness for the mechanical dragon representing Fafner in "Siegfried." Although the Thists are not really necessary to the story, they (along with the Herkus and the stuffed bears) give Baum room for the kind of gently satiric arguments over the nature of good government that he liked to include. Scott Hutchins: A publishing agent interested in seeking new voices? If they tell you that your manuscript needs to be worked on by a professional script doctor, for whose services you will be invited to pay, or if they tell you that a subsidy publisher has offered to publish your work if you pay the publishing costs, you'd do well to say no and look elsewhere. (As I've commented before, rather than looking for an agent now, you'd probably be better off working on writing other things in modes that might be saleable without an agent, so that you can hope to build up the kind of track record that might interest a reputable agent or publisher.) Ruth Berman ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 01 Sep 1998 14:44:27 -0400 (EDT) From: HermBieber@aol.com Subject: For Ozzy Digest For the New England Traveller / Resident: The Science Center of Connecticut, 950 Trout Brook Lane, West Hartford, CT has a show "The Science of Oz" running through September 20, 10 am to 5 pm. As described: "Follow the Yellow Brick Road and make a rainbow, inflate a hot air balloon, step into a tornado, make the Tin Man's heart race, and more. Discover the science in objects and phenomena presented in the classic film, Wizard of Oz." There is also an Oz Laserlite show in the Planetarium at 10:30am, and 1:00 and 3:30 pm; plus Thur. only at 6:00 pm: "An exciting laser version of this family classic. Dorothy never dreamed of anything like this." Herm Bieber ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 01 Sep 1998 12:58:36 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@iupui.edu Subject: Munchkins Cc: DaveH47@delphi.com Here are the names of the Munchkins starting with K, although, according to Stephen Cox's _The Munchkins Remember_, not all the children who appeared in the background are known. Could it be Mitzi Koestner? Robert Kanter .... Munchkin (uncredited) Charles E. Kelley .... Violent Munchkin (uncredited) Jessie E. Kelley .... Violent Munchkin's Wife (uncredited) Joan Kenmore .... Child Munchkin (uncredited) Shirley Ann Kennedy .... Child Munchkin (uncredited) Frank Kikel .... Munchkin (uncredited) Bernard 'Harry' Klima .... Munchkin (uncredited) 'Willi' Koestner .... Soldier (uncredited) Emma Koestner .... Munchkin (uncredited) Mitzi Koestner .... Munchkin (uncredited) Karl 'Karchy' Kosiczky .... Herald #1/Sleepyhead (uncredited) Adam Edwin Kozicki .... Munchkin (uncredited) Joe Koziel .... Townsman #1 (uncredited) Dolly Kramer .... Munchkin Villager (uncredited) Emil Kranzler .... Munchkin Villager (uncredited) Nita Krebs .... League Dancer (uncredited) Scott ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 19:14:48, -0500 From: NQAE93A@prodigy.com (MR ROBERT J COLLINGE) Subject: Ozzy Digest, 09-01-98 Jane wrote: >...... a munchkin in the Wizard of Oz. She is from Muncie, Indiana. Her name was Mary Kiester or Kester. Also her maiden name was Delp.< I checked Stephen Cox's "The Munchkins of Oz" book, and there are no Munchkins listed that are close to the names you listed. The one that comes closest is Mitzi Koestner. There were also an Emma and a William Koestner. There is not much mentioned about them. Sorry I couldn't be of more help. Bob C. ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 01 Sep 1998 20:49:33 -0400 (EDT) From: Orange5193@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-01-98 In a message dated 98-09-01 02:53:05 EDT, Jane Albright writes << In case you all haven't heard, Hallmark Entertainment is producing The Land of Oz for ABC, May 1999. >> I am thrilled to hear they're doing it- this is Robert Halmi's company, I believe and he's also responsible for "Gypsy" with Bette Midler a couple of years back, which was, by the way, completely faithful to the original script. Let's hope the same respect is shown Baum's work :) Let the reign of Ozma begin at last for couch potatoes everywhere! Other matters--- As far as the Famous Forty/ canon argument, I for one believe its time to do some serious thinking about how set in stone one should honestly be about that- there certainly needs to be some recognized distinction between, say, the post-canon published Oz work of RPT, Neill, Cosgrove etc. and "Hogan's Heroes Meet The Harlem Globetrotters in Oz" by Quincy T. O'Studge One can hardly call Neill's "Runaway" a pastiche, since it was clearly written to be part of the canon, but where does it fit in? H.M. James Doyle, T.E. ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 02 Sep 1998 00:09:09 -0400 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz Sender: Tyler Jones Bear: Do you still maintain Digests from every day? If so, what is your earliest one? This is assuming that you have not dumped yours yet. If so, then the first one is gone forever. :-( All: This recent Ozzy Digest is a recod-setter : The most number of consecutive days (6). The old record of five has been reached a number of times. Great milestones of the Ozzy Digest: December 4, 1995. The debut of the Ozzy Digest. Sadly, this is the one digest that I do not have. March 10, 1996. The debut of our Tin Woodman logo, drawn by the talented Gili. March 28, 1996 The only time the Digest was ever dated using a calendar other than A.D. March 1996. The only time that the Ozzy Digest broke the 1 MegaByte ceiling. May 2, 1996. Tyler Jones coins the term "switcheroo" to describe what happened to the Good Witch of the North, plus some other people. August 1996. The last time there was a Digest for every day of the month. October 1, 1996. Dave makes the fateful decision to dump the Amiga and go over to the PC. November 1, 1996. The debut of the current dating system. This was done by Dave to help me verify that I have all the digests archived. Thanks, Dave :-) April 3, 1997. The last time that more than one Digest was sent out on the same day. This does not count special notices, announcements and voting results. These extra Digests have been called "Special Edition", "Addendum" and "Part x of y". Again discounting special things, there have never been more than two regular Digests on the same day. I had thought that August 98 was the first time we ran through an entire month without getting a Digest two days in a row, but that honor was achieved in May of this year. It's only happened twice, though. With the August 98 Digest, we broke the record for smallest byte size in one month at 228,294. This breaks the previous record of 261,882 held by May 98. Note that this is not a "dare" to send huge posts to the Digest just to inflate the size. Let's remain Internet friendly, if we can. Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 01 Sep 1998 22:58:16 -0400 (EDT) From: Baringer@aol.com Subject: Oz Dave, I have the Disco Wizard of Oz record from the 70's by Meco, and I'd like to trade it or sell it. Is there any way you could tell the people of the Ozzy Digest? If it's not too much trouble, could you put me on the mailing list to see if I'm interested in the Ozzy Digest? I appreciate your time. Thanks. ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 02 Sep 1998 14:52:07 +0000 (GMT) From: David Hulan Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-01-98 Scott H.: Hadn't realized that any of Hodgson's books had been filmed, even in Japan. Good luck with _Tip of Oz_. J.L.: >Another trivia question for all, free of both Club encumbrances and >dependence on obscure editions: Name three objects in three different Baum >Oz books that are made of radium. Hmm. There are the radium mines in PG; the Horners made quite a few things out of it, I believe. A quick check turns up radium chairs; there might have been other things. And in _Tik-Tok_ the frame of the Magic Picture is described as being radium. I can't find another reference to it, other than the Wizard's thinking the Gaulau that raises the Skeezer island (in conjunction with a magic word) might be a form of it. I've looked in all the other places that seem plausible and haven't found it, so I'll await your solution. (I expect it's in _Lost Princess_, _Tin Woodman_, or _Magic, because I don't think radium had been discovered by the time of _Emerald City_ and I looked at _Glinda_ pretty carefully. But I can't think where in one of those books it might occur.) Bear: >Barbara DeJohn - If you think summer went fast, wait until you get to >Hulan's age. :) Or even worse, yours! :-) David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 02 Sep 1998 10:56:27 -0400 From: "J. L. Bell" Subject: LOST PRINCESS OF OZ mystery Sender: "J. L. Bell" "Princess Ozma...was lost. She had completely disappeared." What a terrific start for an Oz book! LOST PRINCESS has several ingredients of the classic mystery form that had developed within Baum's lifetime. There's a seemingly untraceable crime, committed with careful planning by a malicious and greedy genius. Ozma's friends seem at first to have the resources to solve the mystery, track down the culprit, and right his wrongs. Baum even refers to his heroines as "girl detectives" [73], and the Little Pink Bear as a "pink Pinkerton" [211]--both Pinkerton agents and young female detectives had been appearing in dime novels for decades. Unfortunately, LOST PRINCESS doesn't develop into a mystery story because it lacks the *other* ingredients we'd need. There are no clues for the detectives--and us--to analyze. There are no red herrings; as Isaac Azimov has written, a classic mystery leads readers toward at least one conclusion that turns out to be wrong. There's no systematic listing and evaluation of suspects. Rather than becoming a battle of wits between criminal and detective, LOST PRINCESS shows Ugu tracked down through magic and luck. Indeed, in this war of wits, I'm sorry to say our heroes are outmatched. Glinda's organization of search parties seems poorly thought out. She sends fragile Jack Pumpkinhead and two mortals into the wild Gillikin Country. She assigns the Tin Woodman not to the Winkie territory, where he commands authority, but to her own land. She ignores the Hungry Tiger, the Glass Cat, and Oz's many birds, who could cover much more ground [Betsy cites birds' knowledge of geography on page 90, and the Bluefinch recognizes Button-Bright on page 157]. Indeed, Glinda's very plan of sending out small search parties is more wishful than wise. More than anyone else she should know the full dimension and complexity of Oz; more than anyone else she should realize a magician powerful enough to steal her Book of Records could also have penetrated her Barrier of Invisibility from outside Oz. The Wizard doesn't seem much shrewder. He takes an uncommonly long time to look for his black bag [not till 66]. He wrongly deduces the villain stole the magic tools to prevent Ozma's friends from rescuing her [68]. As soon as he hears about Ugu, the Wizard assumes he is "just the magician we are searching for" [174]. Dorothy also makes unwarranted assumptions about where Ozma is: "Oh, that [dark place] must be a prison dungeon cell!" [235; cf. 159] The Frogman and Cayke are equally unrealistic in their search for the Golden Dishpan. A Winkie even tells them, "your method [is] sort of haphazard and indefinite" [190]. Their unfounded optimism is easier to understand, of course, because they're from an isolated corner of Oz. This analysis may seem unduly harsh, especially to Glinda fans [Hi, Dave!]. The Ozians' actions are quite understandable and consistent with their personalities. They aren't used to crime, much less tracking down criminals; they're in distress at the loss of Ozma and the magic treasures. But by comparing their actions to what a classic detective--such as Sherlock Holmes--would have done, we can see how removed most of LOST PRINCESS is from a classic mystery story. Only toward the end of the book does a mystery tale develop, in the search for where Ugu hid Ozma. Here at last we do have clues: what the Little Pink Bear has said at various times. We readers also have one clue that Dorothy and the Wizard don't, thanks to Button-Bright's unique thought process. Despite recognizing the name Ugu the Shoemaker on page 173, the boy says nothing about the peach that animals had told him Ugu had enchanted until page 297! J. L. Bell JnoLBell@compuserve.com ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 02 Sep 98 09:39:23 (PDT) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things "YES, OZMA"??: J.L. Bell wrote: >Now for an Oz-as-history analysis of the delay in publishing LOST >PRINCESS: I'm struck by how Baum twice used the term "permitted" in these >book introductions. From whom would the Royal Historian have to get >permission to write LOST PRINCESS? Why, from Princess Ozma, of course. It's >conceivable that benevolent despot suppressed the story of Ugu's thefts and >kidnapping--at least until she'd developed ways to prevent folks from >repeating those crimes. I can't help comparing this scenario to the "Official Secrets" episode of _Yes, Prime Minister_, in which Jim Hacker (the Prime Minister) attempts to stall the publication of a book that doesn't exactly paint him in a favorable light. Actually, a meeting between Ozma and Jim might be an interesting political experiment... >I can imagine a wireless telegraph conversation >like this... I'll buy that! I've long been of the opinion that the Baum 14 are not completely in chronological order...(See my "History of Oz" on my webpage for my conjectured actual order of events in the early days of Ozma's reign.) The only stumbling block is that Betsy and Hank are mentioned in _Rinkitink_, but maybe Baum just inserted that... > ... "the greatest wizard and sorcerer who has ever lived" >[174--Melody Grandy, would this be Wam?]. Melody is no longer on the Digest, but I'll forward this question to her... NONESTICA: For anyone who cares, I have come up with a rationalization that makes the name "Nonestica" for the Ozian Continent more acceptable to me: Just as _Apatosaurus_ (the official scientific name for the Brontosaurus) means "Lizard that does not exist", because it discoverers couldn't believe that it did, "Nonestica" was so named because the first Ozites couldn't believe how beautiful and idyllic it was. NEW VERSION OF _LAND_: James D. wrote: >Let the reign of Ozma begin at last for couch potatoes everywhere! Hear, hear!!! OFF-TOPIC: Rich M. wrote: >(The only use of Laputa I recall was in a Japanese anime >movie by that name, without Gulliver...) I haven't seen it, but I understand that the Ted Danison version has all four lands, including Laputa. Scott wrote: >It is an SF-drama about four youths (3 men, one woman) born in a starship >with a crew of thirty going to Earth for the first time. The woman is a "token" I suppose... Dorothy: I am not, nor will I ever be, a "token woman"! Ozma: Me neither! Glinda: Nor me! Wizard: Sometimes I feel like I'm a "token *man*"! :) -- Dave ====================================================================== -- Dave **************************************************************************** Dave Hardenbrook, DaveH47@delphi.com, http://people.delphi.com/DaveH47/ "I like to define humor as the affectionate communication of insight." -- Leo Rosten, introduction to _Oh K*A*P*L*A*N, My K*A*P*L*A*N_ ====================================================================== ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, SEPTEMBER 3 - 4, 1998 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Content-return: allowed Date: Wed, 02 Sep 1998 14:56:34 -0700 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz Archive: For some reason, I forgot to move the March 1997 Digest over to the archive. It should be there tomorrow. All others are there, including the August 1998 digest. Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 02 Sep 1998 17:47:35 -0500 From: "R. M. Atticus Gannaway" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-02-98 My thoughts on THE LOST PRINCESS OF OZ: When I first read the book at the age of 9 or 10, its inconsistencies marred my enjoyment of it. Specifically, Baum tells us that Dorothy had little notion of how the Magic Belt worked! The girl who collected the belt from Roquat and later gave it to Ozma could no longer use it? She has to practice transformations after turning the Nome Army into eggs?! This is still irksome to me as I re-read the book 10 or 11 years later. The belt definitely assumes deus-ex-machina status, in my mind, and could easily have been omitted by, say, having Scraps' chandelier contain some sort of lever to reverse the room again; the Patchwork Girl inadvertently sets the room in motion to return to its rightful orientation. Had the "pyramid trick" worked, which it might have if Cayke weren't so squeamish, the Wizard could have reached his tools and accomplished Ugu's transformation himself. And thus, one of many ways the untruly-ringing "quick fix" could have been avoided. Unfortunately, I have other grievances. The Thi episode is pointless. And Neill doesn't even illustrate a mechanical dragon, which might have inspired some mild interest in the chapter for me. I wish Baum wouldn't have spoiled the mystery by needlessly having the bird tell Button-Bright about the peach, and the tracking down of Ugu strikes me as far too neat. Aside from that, we hardly even *see* Ugu, who has tremendous potential for psychological interest--an evildoer with no sense of the wrongness of his actions. I agree with J. L. Bell that a mystery story LOST PRINCESS is not. As a child, I had anticipated one and was sorely disappointed. There are, of course, nice elements to the tale--Baum gives the Cowardly Lion some real philosophical gems, and the Frogman's forced hypocrisy reversal is amusing--but I'm afraid that, while I can't help liking the story somewhat (it's Baum, it's Oz), I think Baum could have done quite a bit better here. And considering Glinda's uncharacteristically haphazard method of searching for Ozma, which Mr. Bell also mentioned, I hope that when the Found Princess returned to the Emerald City she got down on her dainty little knees and thanked Lurline that she was rescued at all! To please a child is a sweet and lovely thing--but it didn't quite happen this time, Mr. Baum. Blasphemozly, Atticus * * * "...[T]here is something else: the faith of those despised and endangered that they are not merely the sum of damages done to them." Visit my webpage at http://members.aol.com/atty993 ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 02 Sep 1998 22:57:31 -0700 From: ozbot Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Hi all. I know I don't get to post Ozzy stuff as often as I'd like or as I'd used to, but I do love to get e-mail and read all of you! I was always on the lookout for a similar email list for my other favorite wonderland, namely, well, Wonderland. I have just joined a small list called LewisCarroll, and I would point you in a similar direction if you are interested. It's hosted through "onelist" on the internet, go to http://www.onelist.com/ You have to register at onelist and then go to the books menu (and if there is a subsection, authors) to find LewisCarroll. It's for anyone who wants to discuss Wonderland and any of LewisCarroll's works. ozbot Danny Wall ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 09:29:06 -0400 From: "J. L. Bell" Subject: LOST PRINCESS OF OZ and Magic Belt Sender: "J. L. Bell" Ruth Berman wrote: <> I find Baum's depictions of different forms of government in LOST PRINCESS to be less gentle and varied than in other books (EMERALD CITY, for instance). We see four distinct societies, in addition to Ozma's power structure. And all four seem to be governed deceitfully or harshly. The Yips take their disputes to a giant frog because "the Frogman was shrewd enough to make the people believe he was far more wise than he really was. They never suspected he was a humbug." Like another humbug ruler in the Oz series, the Frogman is adept at securing "time to think" by sending difficult callers on errands [44-6]. In Thi the High Coco-Lorum hides his power from the people. "In reality, I am the King, but the people don't know it. . . . I make the laws to suit myself" [131]. He even seems to hide the name of the city from his people: they say, "We have no occasion to call our city anything" [126], but he says, "We call our city Thi" [129]. (I should acknowledge that the High Coco-Lorum's house is "neither better nor worse than the others" in Thi [128]; Baum leaves the Pink side of Sky Island the same idealized way.) In Herku, Vig has enslaved the giants, making them wear golden collars riveted around their necks [166]. For interrupting him with bad news of burned soup, he throws one giant out a window [172]. Though Vig is happy to give the Wizard some zozoso, "I never allow the giants to have it...and keep all the stuff locked up in my private laboratory" [172]. That Vig is quite close to being a villain can be seen in the parallels between him and Ugu: both are ambitious magic-workers who carefully guard their secrets [173], and neither sees Ugu's ambition as having made him wicked [175, 241]. Even the Big Lavender Bear, the most soft-hearted ruler our search parties encounter, makes a mockery of Bear Center's laws and threatens to banish naughty bears to--horrors!--America [218]. These depictions of rulers show us how valuable it is for Oz to have Ozma. As Baum's introduction quotes a reader, "I s'pose if Ozma ever got lost, or stolen, ev'rybody in Oz would be dreadful sorry." Thanks, Ruth, for mentioning the BUGLE article that discusses Baum's correspondence in regard to LOST PRINCESS. Once I stop viewing LOST PRINCESS as a mystery story, being frustrated by the lack of clues and detection, I enjoy it as a good-versus-evil adventure. It's like a movie serial or comic book, especially after Chapter 19, when we've seen Ugu commit his crimes. We're in for a seesaw game of "Magic Against Magic" as the rescuers approach the wicker castle. Dorothy carries the trump card, of course. I remember disliking how cavalierly Baum handles the Magic Belt here, disregarding what he told us in previous books. Near the quest's beginning Dorothy insists "I've never found out about" the Belt's powers [97], but of course she had found out in OZMA. Later she oh-so-conveniently recalls intricate directions for its use. And the method she remembers is one we've never heard about before. All that contradiction could have been avoided if Baum had given Dorothy one more speech: "It's been ever so long since I used the Belt against the Nome King. Ozma told me she'd found out a way it grants wishes, but I can't 'member any of how it works now. P'rhaps I'll find out by the time we meet whoever stole her." That still leaves one contradiction to gnaw at us Oz fans: How can Dorothy transform the Sawhorse into a potato-masher [290] when Ruggedo couldn't freeze that wooden beast in OZMA? People probably have different theories, but here's my childhood system of explaining the Magic Belt's powers. There are four: 1) Protecting its wearer from harm. 2) Transporting, shrinking, and enlarging things--i.e., not changing their essence, but changing how they stand in relation to other things. This power, for whatever reason, doesn't work on wood. 3) Transforming things--changing their essence. This power does work on wood, and is what the Nome King most enjoyed using. 4) Granting a wish so powerful that it can overcome most other magic. This action is so draining that the Belt can grant only one wish a day. It therefore has an elaborate trigger: close right eye, wiggle left toe, draw breath. That leaves only the knotty question of why the sleepless Sawhorse stood still for being transformed into a potato masher. Maybe the horse was glad to be put out to spud. Scott Hutchins, the Linda Chester Agency is a reputable firm. Ruth's advice to you is very sound, however: don't send checks, and keep writing. J. L. Bell JnoLBell@compuserve.com ====================================================================== Content-return: allowed Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 09:13:44 -0700 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz Other Great moments on the Ozzy Digest, January 23, 1997. Bear Bauman suggests an Ozzy "Book of the month" for discussion. This idea is met with great approval, and has defined much of the Digest ever since. Only one dissenting voice was heard, and I won't tell you who that was. No, it wasn't me! :-) February 1, 1997. After much discussion on the format, Dave Hardenbrook coins the term "Book of Current Focus", or BCF, partially to assure us that each book will not take exactly one month and also to dispel the idea that only posts about the "Book of the Month" would be allowed. February 4, 1997. Stephen Teller makes the first "BCF" post. Feb 24, 1997. Possibly the first official day of the BCF format. Originally scheduled for Feb. 10, 1997, Dave psuhed it back twice, but there was no digest for the 24th and no other official start time was ever mentioned. Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 23:56:16 -0400 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz Sender: Tyler Jones James Doyle: Well, the only real arguement for the "officialness" of the Famous Forty is that these forty were published with relative regularity by one publishing house. Even books after that by canon authors were fairly sporadic. Then, of course, there are the numerous pastiches. If you go to Dave's FAQ, you will find that the Oz books are typically divided up into these groups: 1. The Famous Forty. The core of the Oz series. Some people go further and consider the Baum 14 to be the really important ones. 2. The QFS, or Quasi-Famous Seven. These are the seven Oz books written by FF authors, mostly published by the Oz club. 3. Everything else. Private publications, Books of Wonder, TOTCLAF, etc. Some people make a distinction between actualy books and short stories published in magazines. The Famous Forty are the most well known (as well known as the Oz books are, at any rate), and the are the most profesionally done, as well as being, on the averge, better written than others. They will probably always be the standard, although I consider the others to be historically valid, as long as the jibe textually with the Famous Forty. Certainly, Oz as we know it was clearly defined in the FF, so any vision of Oz that would be acceptable to most people would have to be based on it. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 04 Sep 1998 08:52:14 -0700 From: "Stephen J. Teller" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-02-98 > In the Irrelevant Episode dept > (I keep reversing the initialese for this and wanting to call the type > Extraneous Incidents), the most notable example in "Lost Princess" is > the visit to the Thists. Dan Mannix had an article in the "Bugle" about > the influence of Wagner's Ring Cycle on Baum, mostly in terms of the > Nome King as similar to similar to the gold-greedy Alberich the Dwarf, > but he also suggested that the point of the visit to the Thists might > have been getting to run a musical mechanical dragon through the > scene out of fondness for the mechanical dragon representing Fafner > in "Siegfried." > > Ruth Berman The new covers that Michael Herring drew for the Del Rey paperback editions of the Oz books are all very nice, but my favority is the one for LOST PRINCESS, because there he presents one of the great mechanical dragons of Thi which Neill's drawings do not show. The book is worth having just for that cover. > Other matters--- > As far as the Famous Forty/ canon argument, I for one believe its time to do > some serious thinking about how set in stone one should honestly be about > that- there certainly needs to be some recognized distinction between, say, > the post-canon published Oz work of RPT, Neill, Cosgrove etc. and "Hogan's > Heroes Meet The Harlem Globetrotters in Oz" by Quincy T. O'Studge One can > hardly call Neill's "Runaway" a pastiche, since it was clearly written to be > part of the canon, but where does it fit in? > > H.M. James Doyle, T.E. > RUNAWAY fits in the same way Baum's "Queer Visitors" and "Little Wizard" stories and Thompson's YANKEE and ENCHANTED ISLAND: these are what I called "deutero-canonical" writings. The "canon" consists of the forty, the "deutero-canonical" material of other Oz related writings by the canonic writers and the "apocrypha" of Oz narratives by other writers. The apocrypha can be divided into "orthodox" and "heretical", the latter including such works of Farmer's BARNSTORMER and Tedrow's DOROTHY--RETURN TO OZ. > > J.L.: > >Another trivia question for all, free of both Club encumbrances and > >dependence on obscure editions: Name three objects in three different Baum > >Oz books that are made of radium. > > Hmm. There are the radium mines in PG; the Horners made quite a few things > out of it, I believe. A quick check turns up radium chairs; there might > have been other things. And in _Tik-Tok_ the frame of the Magic Picture is > described as being radium. I can't find another reference to it, other than > the Wizard's thinking the Gaulau that raises the Skeezer island (in > conjunction with a magic word) might be a form of it. I've looked in all > the other places that seem plausible and haven't found it, so I'll await > your solution. (I expect it's in _Lost Princess_, _Tin Woodman_, or _Magic, > because I don't think radium had been discovered by the time of _Emerald > City_ and I looked at _Glinda_ pretty carefully. But I can't think where in > one of those books it might occur.) > In ROAD Ozma has a radium crown. > From: Dave Hardenbrook > NONESTICA: > For anyone who cares, I have come up with a rationalization that makes the > name "Nonestica" for the Ozian Continent more acceptable to me: Just as > _Apatosaurus_ (the official scientific name for the Brontosaurus) > means "Lizard that does not exist", because it discoverers couldn't > believe that it did, "Nonestica" was so named because the first Ozites > couldn't believe how beautiful and idyllic it was. "Nonestica" is the proper name for the continent because it is the largest land mass is the Nonestic Ocean. Steve T. ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 04 Sep 1998 11:17:25 -0600 (CST) From: Ruth Berman Subject: ozzy digest J. L. Bell: I like your idea that Ozma might have suppressed the events of "Lost Princess" until she'd had time to beef up security a bit. On the switch from introducing himself as Royal Historian to acknowledging the story is fiction -- it would have been difficult to use the Royal Historian presentation and at the same time give credit to the youngster who suggested the plot -- Baum felt that giving credit was the more important, evidently. I think you're right that the ode to imagination as a defense of fantasy writing is really addressed to the parents rather than to the kids. Interesting set of comments on ways in which "Lost Princess" is like and unlike dime novel detectives and Sherlock Holmes. Were there "girl detectives" among the dime novels? I had an impression that they were a bit later -- maybe first with the Stratemeyer fiction factory, although the Stratemeyer's Carolyn Keene's Nancy Drew wasn't the first. Baum was familiar with the Holmes stories, including a parody of Holmes' resurrection in his scenario, "The Wizard of Gee Whiz," and a reference to it in one of his girl-aviator books. (Richard Rutter had an article in the "Bugle" some years back pointing out the similar use of a clue of which-way-do-the- bike-tire-tracks-go in one of the Holmes stories and a magazine story of Baum's. It's an interesting example of how close stories can get without actually being influenced by each other at all, as Baum's use of the gimmick came first, but in such an obscure publication that it's very unlikely that Doyle could have seen it.) Rich Morrissey: Yes, "Twinkle Twinkle Little Star" holds up on its own without the bat. Come to think of it, so does Foster's "Beautiful Dreamer," which is (rather distantly) parodied in "Soup of the Evening." On the theory that the Oz books are probably as strong as the likes of "Twinkle" and "Dreamer," and not as weak as the likes of "How doth the little busy bee" or the one about the old man's comforts, it seems to safe to conclude that the Oz books are not going to get swamped by books such as "Wicked." Tyler Jones: Interesting batch of statistics. ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 04 Sep 1998 20:32:29 +0000 (GMT) From: David Hulan Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-02-98 To: "Dave L. Hardenbrook" J.L.: I don't have a copy of OZMA with the "Slinky Ozma" cover, so I haven't been able to do a side-by-side comparison, but my memory of that cover is pretty close to the "How can we ever thank you?" illustration on page 261 of _Pirates_. Similar pose, anyhow. Your Oz-as-history analysis of the delay in publishing _Lost Princess_ makes very good sense to me. (Of course, I'm almost sure that what Baum really meant by "permitted" was that he'd live that long - which would work either from the Oz-as-history or Oz-as-literature POV. His health was definitely failing by the time LP was published, and I think even by the times of _Scarecrow_ and _Rinkitink_.) I suppose it's possible that Ozma gained some of her enhanced powers from materials confiscated from Ugu's castle, but I doubt it. In _Glinda_ Baum is pretty specific that Ozma's magic is of a different sort - fairy magic - from the technological magic used by Glinda, the Wizard, Ugu, and presumably Ugu's ancestor. It's true that Ozma seems to use a bit of technological magic in _Tin Woodman_ to view Mrs. Yoop from Jinjur's cottage, but that's an isolated instance and may be a specific trick taught her by one of the others so she can in effect have a portable Magic Picture. I think that at some point between _Lost Princess_ and _Tin Woodman_ (or _Glinda_, if, as some of us speculate, the events of that book actually precede those of _Tin Woodman_) Ozma visited Burzee and received some training in fairy magic from Lurline or members of her band. (This was a part of the plot of my _Magic Carpet of Oz_ entry in the Centennial contest, but that book now seems unlikely to see print.) It's my opinion that Glinda didn't expect much from the search parties, but sent them out so that she could do her work recreating her magical tools without one of the others interrupting her every hour or so with frantic questions. It was sheer luck that one of the parties actually did happen on the villain. Rich: Correct on Billina and Santa Claus. Ozma in boots is when she's a grasshopper ornament in _Ozma_; the character who plays an important role in the first two books and never appears again in the text of another book is the Queen of the Field Mice. (At least, there's no reason to believe that the Guardian of the Gates in _Patchwork Girl_ is different from the one in _Wizard_ and _Land_. Thompson certainly implies that the one from _Wizard_ has been continuously serving in that capacity up to the time of _Ozoplaning_.) Ruth: It's not strictly true that all of Baum's last few Oz books are set entirely in Oz; Kiki Aru travels rather extensively outside Oz in _Magic_, though his adventures there take up only a couple of chapters. The visit to Thi is really the only extensive Irrelevant Episode in LP, although the Winkie who couldn't communicate with animals is another short one. I'm sort of surprised that Wagner would have influenced Baum, considering the apparent negative reference to "Vogner" in _John Dough_. James: There is some distinction between the post-FF Oz books written (or at least started) by one of the FF authors or illustrators and those by others, but even the former aren't considered fully canonical. This is true even though I consider _Forbidden Fountain_, _Ozmapolitan_, _Wicked Witch_, and _Runaway_ all to be superior to several of the FF - _Ozoplaning_, _Wonder City_, and _Hidden Valley_ for sure, and the first two to _Cowardly Lion_, _Lucky Bucky_, and _Shaggy Man_ as well. Dave: Melody isn't on the Digest any more? I'm sorry to hear that, and hope it's either because of lack of time or because the Digests became boring to her, and not that she took offense at anything anyone said. >Scott wrote: >>It is an SF-drama about four youths (3 men, one woman) born in a starship >>with a crew of thirty going to Earth for the first time. > >The woman is a "token" I suppose... It's more likely, I would think, that they're duplicating the gender numbers of the Fab Four in _Wizard_. More on _Lost Princess_: Despite some flaws, this remains my favorite of the Baum Oz books by a small margin over _Ozma_ and _Patchwork Girl_. I think part of the reason it became my favorite as a child was that it was the only Oz book I owned with a true map in it (_Lucky Bucky_ had a map of sorts, but Neill labeled it "Not a true map," and it obviously wasn't). Of course, it was mirror-reversed from the text (since the latter specifies that the Winkie country is in the west, and the map shows it in the east), but still, it was a map, and even when I was 8 years old I loved maps. The fact that I owned it from a very young age may well be why _Ozma_ and PG - which I read then, but didn't own - fall below it in my estimation, but it's nevertheless a very good story. There's a fixed goal from the very beginning (though the two separate search parties don't know until they meet that they're both on essentially the same quest), and it's an important one. I've never been able to regard freeing the royal family of Ev as being particularly important (maybe if we'd been given a chance to know them a bit better after they were freed?), so the plot of _Ozma_ has always struck me as "Ozma places herself and friends in deep yogurt and Billina has to get them out, with a little help from Dorothy." And while Ojo's quest in PG is interesting, it's ultimately shown to be both impossible and unnecessary. However, as usual there are odd bits that don't quite work. How could the Scarecrow and Tin Woodman be "taking a course of [Prof. Wogglebug's] Patent Education Pills" (p 77)? It's been well-established that neither of them can ingest anything. The passing of the Merry-Go-Round Mountains makes very little sense as described. In the first place, the method described for swinging out on a strap wouldn't work, or at least, it wouldn't let you get as far as just taking a running jump off the edge would. It might work if the swinger grabbed the strap high enough to get his/her feet off the ground, and pumped it like a swing until it was going really high, or if the strap were fastened far out on a limb that extended halfway to the nearest mountain. But that's not how it's described. And while the humans could possibly do it, I see no way how any of the animals could. Second, anybody who's ever played a pinball machine knows that there's no way that all those people and animals, of widely varying weight and strength, are going to end up close to each other on the other side. I'd expect the party to end up distributed fairly uniformly all around the perimeter of the mountains. Nah, Wiz - you blew this one. From a look at the map it would take about a day extra to go around the mountains, and since Ozma is just as likely (from what they know at that time) to be somewhere north or south of the mountains as west, there's no reason they shouldn't. It's not as if they were trying to get to a specific goal; they're exploring. The treatment of the Little Pink Bear by the Emerald City party is totally out of character for most of them. It's true that his pronouncements are frequently oracular, but it's very hard for me to believe that the Wizard or Dorothy would be so instantly dismissive of what he said, especially when they know that there's powerful magic at work. As John mentioned, Button-Bright could have solved everything if he'd just mentioned that enchanted peach he'd eaten, but Button-Bright's intelligence seems to dim anytime Baum needs it to for plot purposes, so we can let that pass. It's much harder to accept that the Wizard would not have pursued the same line of questioning he eventually did when they first found Button-Bright in the hole, and the Bear said that Ozma was in the hole as well, and especially when he said Ozma wasn't in the hole once Button-Bright was out. There's another inconsistency when the Big Lavender Bear asks the Little Pink Bear if it's safe for them to join the Emerald City party. Surely that falls into the class of things that are _going_ to happen, which the BLB has told Cayke and the Frogman the LPB can't tell about. And I guess that's enough for one post. David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 04 Sep 1998 15:35:52 -0400 (EDT) From: LionCoward@aol.com Subject: IMPS and CORN MANSION The books The Three Imps of Oz and The Corn Mansion of Oz are here and ready to be ordered. For the many people who have already pre- ordered, many thanks. Now at press is Thorns and Private Files in Oz. Get all the details on these and other Oz books @ http://members.aol.com/LionCoward/home.html ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 04 Sep 1998 15:55:24 -0700 From: Estelle Subject: Rob Roy MacVeigh Auction Catalogue We purchased 2 catalogues @15. for the Rob Roy MacVeigh auction in July and would be happy to sell one (mint condition) to the first person who contacts us (I will also include a copy of the prices realized). estelle & rebecca ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 04 Sep 98 13:09:11 (PDT) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things BELT EX MACHINA: Atticus wrote: >This is still irksome to me as I re-read the book 10 or 11 years later. >The belt definitely assumes deus-ex-machina status... This use of the Belt for quick resolutions only gets worse as the series progresses... PARODIES: Ruth wrote: > ... so does Foster's "Beautiful Dreamer," which is (rather distantly) >parodied in "Soup of the Evening." Actually, the Mock Turtle's song was a parody of "Star of the Evening, Beautiful Star". DAVID H.: >I don't have a copy of OZMA with the "Slinky Ozma" cover... I have a JPEG of it, if like me to E-mail it to you... >I suppose it's possible that Ozma gained some of her enhanced powers from >materials confiscated from Ugu's castle, but I doubt it. In _Glinda_ Baum >is pretty specific that Ozma's magic is of a different sort - fairy magic - >from the technological magic used by Glinda, the Wizard, Ugu, and >presumably Ugu's ancestor. Isn't it possible that she intentionally strived to broaden her magical horizons? If Glinda could train the Wizard, she could train Ozma...And since it's my MOPPET that _Glinda of Oz_ actually took place between _Lost P. Oz_ and _Tin W. Oz_...Well, I won't go into that today... "YES, OZMA"?? II: I maddeningly cannot find it now, but I know *someone* the last couple of days commented on how Baum treats _LPOz_ as fiction in his intro mainly to give credit to the little girl who said that everyone would be "awfully sorry" if Ozma were lost. I agree with that, because in _Tin Woodman_ he goes back to reagarding the books as "History". So I don't believe Baum in _Lost P. Oz_ was attempting to appease pragmatic adults. Nor did he really need to...In another little Oz-_Yes, Minister_ parallel, in the novel versions of that TV series, the authors always reagrd themselves in the books' intro and footnotes as "Editors" of these real memoirs of a real Cabinet Minister and later Prime Minister of Great Britian, without any "all characters and events in this work are ficticious" type of disclaimer. Antony Jay and Johnathan Lynn were the "Royal Historians" of the life of James Hacker, MP. -- Dave ====================================================================== -- Dave **************************************************************************** Dave Hardenbrook, DaveH47@delphi.com, http://people.delphi.com/DaveH47/ "I like to define humor as the affectionate communication of insight." -- Leo Rosten, introduction to _Oh K*A*P*L*A*N, My K*A*P*L*A*N_ ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, SEPTEMBER 5 - 7, 1998 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 05 Sep 1998 02:15:54 -0400 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz Sender: Tyler Jones Lost Princess: The one thing that definitely struck me as odd when I first read this was the difference in the number of people assigned to each party. Dorothy has by far the largest. I was also amused at the beginning of Chapter 6 to learn that the Scarecrow and Tin Woodman were taking a course of the Wogglebugs pills. The pills could be ground up into powder and mixed in with the Scarecrow's brains, but The Tin Woodman has me stumped. One of the few useful tidbits offered in this book is the statement that Dorothy is one year younger than Betsy and one year older than Trot. The Web: I have moved my entire CompuServe web site over to my Apprentice site at work. This has 3 advantages: 1. Instant updates with no CompuServe Charges 2. Virtually unlimited space, as opposed to the 5MB limit imposed by CompuServe. 3. I can use subdirectories. With CompuServe, everything had to be in the same directory, and that tended to be a pain. Sadly, I did not type in the links correctly, so much of the site cannot be accessed from the hyperlinks. I will correct this problem on Tuesday. Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 05 Sep 1998 22:50:31 -0400 From: Richard Bauman Subject: Somedays Oz Growls Sender: Richard Bauman Gee J.L., I don't recall Holmes being confronted by many powerful magicians. This is, after all, a children's story. Dave - What happened to Melody???? Atticus commented: Aside from that, we hardly even *see* Ugu, who has tremendous potential for psychological interest--an evildoer with no sense of the wrongness of his actions. Hmmmm. David - Magic Carpet of Oz - Why don't you publish it yourself. I'll buy one. Everyone on the Digest might as well. Regards, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 06 Sep 1998 13:25:10 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-02-98 Meghan: Michelle Naylor worked on an X-Files Oz story. I believe it was an investigation of the voice house in _PG_. Rich: Charles Sturridge's 1997 two part telefilm starring Ted Danson adapted the whole book, with significant deletions such as having to learn the language, some censored portions, the monkey, the sea voyages, and that the four voyages happened one right after the other, with Gulliver's supposed insanity dealing with insisting his adventures are true rather than an inability to reconcile man's yahoo nature. I finally got a chance to read the book this past week, but had to leave Gulliver at the Academy of Lagado when I went back to school. I haven't had time to pick it up again. I had read excerpts of books 1, 2, and 4 before. Disney recently picked up Hayao Miyazaki's _Laputa: Castle in the Sky_ to be released DTV like they did with his _Kiki's Delivery Service_ (in which Phil Hartman plays Kirsten Dunst's dad again). I believe they have shortened the title to _Castle in the Sky_ and have given it a new music score. (They really shouldn't do that) Jane: Do you know if the new _Land of Oz_ (which Marc Berezin tells me you suspect will be animated) is why Hallmark bought the video rights to _Journey Back to Oz_? I hope they're not just going to put this out and say it's theirs. Anyway, if you don't already have Hallmark Entertianment's release of _Journey Back to Oz_, I highly recommend it: it is a beautiful new print without the color fluctuations of the previous video versions. Unfortunately, they claim it has the Bill Cosby footage, but it does not. Please tell me Trevor Jones is writing the music for Land (I'm a fan)! Scott ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 06 Sep 1998 14:07:37 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-04-98 > Scott Hutchins, the Linda Chester Agency is a reputable firm. Ruth's advice > to you is very sound, however: don't send checks, and keep writing. > > J. L. Bell JnoLBell@compuserve.com I have no intention of letting my book get turned over to a script doctor. Up front, all revisions must be my own, or no deal. I don't have to sell it to them, after all. > > > In ROAD Ozma has a radium crown. Then Ozma's lucky she doesn't have cancer. Well, the only real risj is if she were to hold it between her teeth to keep her hands free, but her head would make more sense in that case. > > From: Dave Hardenbrook > > > NONESTICA: > > For anyone who cares, I have come up with a rationalization that makes the > > name "Nonestica" for the Ozian Continent more acceptable to me: Just as > > _Apatosaurus_ (the official scientific name for the Brontosaurus) > > means "Lizard that does not exist", because it discoverers couldn't > > believe that it did, "Nonestica" was so named because the first Ozites > > couldn't believe how beautiful and idyllic it was. > > "Nonestica" is the proper name for the continent because it is the > largest land mass is the Nonestic Ocean. Perhaps his explanation is a good explanation for the name "nonestic Ocean." Tip, who is not necessarily reliable, although honest, suggests very cynically, that the name was given so those in the outside world would see it as an encoding that it does not really exist, to keep Oz from becoming overpopulated. Though I have not read in, March Laumer's _The Ten Woodmen of Oz: Th Oz Book for 1999_ deals with that explicitly, and tip makes reference to it as a work of speculative fiction. I found the Bugle summary very amusing, it said that Dorothy is sent to Oz looking like MGM's Dorothy, the Ozites believing that is how she will best be recognized. The plan backfires, and it's interpreted as a publicity stunt! > in which "Lost Princess" is like and unlike dime novel detectives and > Sherlock Holmes. Were there "girl detectives" among the dime > novels? I had an impression that they were a bit later -- maybe first Dorothy Dwan of the 1925 film frequently appeared as a detective in '20s films, but obviously, that was later. > Rich: > Correct on Billina and Santa Claus. Ozma in boots is when she's a > grasshopper ornament in _Ozma_; the character who plays an important role > in the first two books and never appears again in the text of another book > is the Queen of the Field Mice. (At least, there's no reason to believe > that the Guardian of the Gates in _Patchwork Girl_ is different from the > one in _Wizard_ and _Land_. Thompson certainly implies that the one from > _Wizard_ has been continuously serving in that capacity up to the time of > _Ozoplaning_.) But is there only one Guadian of the Gates, and if so, what's his name? > I'm sort of surprised that Wagner would have influenced Baum, considering > the apparent negative reference to "Vogner" in _John Dough_. Well, in the glorious land of Mo, where Baum said he wanted to go after finishing the book, the thunderstorms play _Tannhauser_, so he must have like Wagner more than, say, Samuel Clemens (who liked Baum, BTW). > >Scott wrote: > >>It is an SF-drama about four youths (3 men, one woman) born in a starship > >>with a crew of thirty going to Earth for the first time. > > > >The woman is a "token" I suppose... > > It's more likely, I would think, that they're duplicating the gender > numbers of the Fab Four in _Wizard_. Diane Rainwater Uttley ( Mary-Beth Doty ) Diane serves as the engineer and maintenance manager of the Ludington. Her job is to make sure the ship returns to Earth in one piece. The 23 year old Diane is married to Stuart Uttley. She has great respect for her younger brother Jacob, but can't quite understand him. She looks forward to returning home in order to experience the freedom that has been denied her living in a cramped spaceship. Gordon Meisenheimer ( Coley Winbush ) Medical specialist Gordon Meisenheimer is responsible for crew welfare on the Ludington. He spent much of his childhood learning biology and medicine. He almost has all of the training of a medical doctor even though he is only 21 years old. Although he finds his work rewarding, he was given little choice in life and finds himself bored a great deal of the time. He eagerly awaits the return home and hides a secret desire that may cause problems among the crew. Jacob Rainwater ( Brian Galebach ) The youngest of the Ludington crew, Jacob Rainwater takes a cynical view of the life forced upon him. Raised a scientist, his job is to present the mission findings to the people of Earth. It's a job that overwhelms him because he feels the work that preceded his by the original field scientists was sloppy and incomplete. He's not very trusting but has an unusual friendship with Gordon and an appreciation for his sister, Diane. Stuart Uttley ( Tino Marquez Jr. ) Stuart is the mission commander. At 24 years old, he feels the weight of great responsibility on his shoulders. He has a strong sense of duty. He has dreams of his own, but he had decided that those dreams must be secondary to the mission. He can always pursue them later. Married to Diane, he's mostly content, but the leadership role placed on him at such a young age shows in his face and gives him the seasoned impression of man of many more years. I am going to get involved with Bunk Films, so I might be part of the crew, as I don't belive the picture is yet completed, even if it is all in the can. They only started filming July 17th. The Credits List: Director: Carl James Producer: Carl James Executive Producer: Tino Marquez Jr. Associate Producer: Brian Galebach Production Consultant: Will Hickman Writer: Carl James Music: Brian Galebach Art Direction: Tina James Editing: Carl James Videography: Carl James Computer Generated Special Effects: Fairiz Hinman Make-Up: Mary-Beth Doty Starring: Mary-Beth Doty as "Diane" Coley Winbush as "Gordon" Brian Galebach as "Jacob" Tino Marquez, Jr. as "Stuart" With the Voice of: Hannah Mufson as "The Computer" Scott ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 06 Sep 1998 16:26:03 -0400 From: "J. L. Bell" Subject: LOST PRINCESS OF OZ perspective Sender: "J. L. Bell" When I'm rereading an Oz book for these discussions, I try to spot a theme that runs through all or most of its episodes. Such a theme helps, in my mind, to unify the separate threads. It may explain, if not justify, passages which seem boring or extraneous. Identifying a theme for LOST PRINCESS took longer than usual, but I finally came down on the issue of perspective. The importance of different points of view shows up in many of Baum's books, but it seems to be nearly everywhere in this one. Remarks on perspective appear as early as page 22, when Scraps says she hasn't seen Ozma that fateful morning, but then she hasn't seen anything at all. Later, the city of Thi seems to move, causing the Wizard to suspect it's "Just an illusion" [114]; the High Coco-Lorum reveals that the city is stable, but the land turns around it [130]. And the final chapter shows us the Tin Woodman and the Scarecrow nearly bickering over their favorite colors [309]. This theme of perspective makes sense of Chapter Ten, which is mostly an argument among the animals unrelated to their quest. Baum shows how they champion their different tastes. Even when their talk does focus on finding the villain, he invokes perspective: the Lion rumbles, "The growl is of importance only to you," and Toto insists, "to prevent a dog from growling...is just as wicked, in my opinion, as stealing all the magic in Oz" [148-9]. (If only Toto truly "seldom said anything" in this book [82], I'd like him a lot more.) A lot of the spells cast in LOST PRINCESS depend on deceptive appearances. The Lavender Bear's magic consists of conjuring up images. Ugu has an army of ghost soldiers [268]. Thi is surrounded by what looks like a wall but is insubstantial [122], while Ugu has its converse, an invisible wall [285], and a wall that's impassable from one side but yields to a pin from the other [264]. The Merry-Go-Round Mountains look rocky, but are rubbery [108]. The people of Herku look "dreadfully lean and thin," but are very strong [166]. Both sides of the struggle can be tripped up by the limits of their points of view. On page 236 Scraps is confident nothing can hurt her, but on 261 she's on the run from Ugu's fire. Meanwhile, Baum implies that Ugu thought his fire would be impossible to quench; as Glinda's protege, the Wizard has the knowledge to quench it. Ugu the Shoemaker's main failing, Baum writes, is his self-centered perspective. The first thing we learn about Ugu is that "he didn't suspect, in the least, that he was wicked. . . . His ambition blinded him to the rights of others and he imagined anyone else would act just as he did if anyone else happened to be as clever as himself" [241]. (A psychological analysis might cast his wickedness as a response to desertion by his father and having to work hard [242]; in TIK-TOK Ann Soforth has the same complaints, and perhaps Baum himself felt such resentment after his family's fortune disappeared.) Baum makes nice use of shifts in point of view in narrating LOST PRINCESS. To cross the Merry-Go-Round Mountains we stay with Dorothy: first watching three of her companions go over, then experiencing her trip, and finally awaiting the rest of the party [105-7]. When the Lavender Bear shows Ugu's image to Cayke and the Frogman, we readers can recognize Glinda's Great Book of Records, but since those characters don't know the Book the narrator doesn't identify it [213]. And the story of the golden peach-pit challenges us to use knowledge only we (and Button-Bright) have to find Ozma before Dorothy and the Wizard. This kaleidoscope of perspectives and illusions doesn't mean truth is all relative, however. Baum highlights a few fonts of truth. The Truth Pond is one, of course. It forces the Frogman to acknowledge that his status among the Yips is based mostly on his unique appearance (though Baum also says he's "adventurous" and "unusually intelligent" [40-2], and he proves to have those qualities). Refusing to bathe in the Truth Pond allows Cayke to maintain her "pleasing illusion" that the Frogman is very wise [186, 207]. The Great Book of Records and the Magic Picture are two more sources of truth in Oz; Ugu therefore steals them to ensure his plan "to become the greatest magician in Oz" can proceed [242-3]. Another true voice is the Little Pink Bear's. Twice children think he's "crazy" [257, 296], but the bear king proves correct: "He never makes a mistake!" [298] The solution to the final mystery comes only when the Wizard figures out how Ugu's peachy illusion and changing perspectives have masked the little bear's true information. Given that emphasis on perspective, it's appropriate that Ugu halts Ozma's rescuers by turning their world upside-down [274]. But in Oz adventures, Dorothy is a champion of truth; she's not always right on the facts but always clear on priorities [154, 159]. Representing the side of right, Dorothy soon has the castle right-side-up again. After that, Ugu has lost the battle, and knows it. But only when he changes his perspective on life [309, 312] does he become truly happy. Whew! J. L. Bell JnoLBell@compuserve.com ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 04 Sep 1998 23:41:43 -0500 (EST) From: Jeremy Steadman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-02-98 The 2nd-- <> Funny, I thought most publishing agents were interested in new authors... Stuff made from radium: Reminds me of teh very purpose of cookie jars--to radium . . . The 4th-- _LOST PRINCESS_: As the first non-WWoO Oz book I ever read, I ought to have fond memories of it. Unfortunately, any such memories as I might have had are marred by the constant questioning "Who is this Ozma person?" etc., that I did at the time. Banishment: Banishing bears to ... America?!!! A worse fate I could not wish on anyone! <> But in Oz the characters ALWAYS succeed by pure chance--in fact, it's about the only way to get ahead there. (For those that don't already have one.) (Sorry.) Jeremy Steadman, Royal Historian of Oz kivel99@planetall.com http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Dimension/9619 "A good example of a parasite? Hmmm, let me think... How about the Eiffel tower?" ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 07 Sep 98 20:50:19 (PDT) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things Bear wrote: >Dave - What happened to Melody???? She has asked me not to say, for the time being. -- Dave ====================================================================== -- Dave **************************************************************************** Dave Hardenbrook, DaveH47@delphi.com, http://people.delphi.com/DaveH47/ "I like to define humor as the affectionate communication of insight." -- Leo Rosten, introduction to _Oh K*A*P*L*A*N, My K*A*P*L*A*N_ ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, SEPTEMBER 8 - 9, 1998 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1998 06:26:06 -0400 (EDT) From: Ozmama@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-07-98 John Bell. I like your analysis, but would like to point out an alternative theme or, perhaps, an additional one. I think you're right about point of view, but would like to suggest the classic Baum theme of Appearance vs. Reality. << A lot of the spells cast in LOST PRINCESS depend on deceptive appearances. The Lavender Bear's magic consists of conjuring up images. Ugu has an army of ghost soldiers [268]. Thi is surrounded by what looks like a wall but is insubstantial [122], while Ugu has its converse, an invisible wall [285], and a wall that's impassable from one side but yields to a pin from the other [264]. The Merry-Go-Round Mountains look rocky, but are rubbery [108]. The people of Herku look "dreadfully lean and thin," but are very strong [166]. >> Add to these the Truth Pond and Ozma in a golden peach pit, and you'll also have a case for stating that Appearance vs. Reality is a major theme in this book. It's certainly one of Baum's favorite themes. Things are not as they appear to be. Thi seems to be in one place, but then seems to be elsewhere. The Little Pink Bear seems to be wrong when he tells the group where Ozma is, but he's right. Ugu appears to have been punished by being transformed into a dove, but it turns out that he likes the new form. --Robin ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1998 07:39:02 -0700 From: Bob Spark Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-07-98 In Re: "The Lost Princess of Oz", I find that I like all the various animals less than I did after I read this book. They, all of them, have very little sympathy for anyone other than themselves. Toto had a legitimate cause for being upset and could have used a little support. If he thought he had perhaps he wouldn't have whined so much. I ask you, in that picture on page 149, could anyone not feel sorry for him? Even Dorothy (his mistress) dismisses his loss of bark as relatively minor. Having said that, I also prefer him to be seen and not heard. He's a little too voluble for me. For that matter, the humans also all seem to be fairly blasי about other's (of any species) difficulties. I don't particularly like Dorothy's experiments on the others while they were sleeping. Seems that she could have gotten them in all kinds of difficulties. She could have tested the belt on inanimate objects. In chapter 13, page 181, "The water was deliciously cool and grateful to his thick, rough skin" I like the wording, but it really doesn't make a heck of a lot of sense, does it? Would the water being "grateful" to his skin be an obsolete usage? For that matter, as one who (as all high school students were at the time) was forced to kill and dissect a frog, I don't recall that it had particularly thick and rough skin. Rather smooth and elastic. Finally, I find Cayke to be a damned attractive woman and wouldn't mind seeing more of her. Bob Spark ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1998 13:16:53 -0400 From: "J. L. Bell" Subject: LOST PRINCESS OF OZ alternatives Sender: "J. L. Bell" [Parts of this message were sent 9/5, but disappeared into deepest cyberspace. I'm assuming they won't circle back; if they do, sorry for the redundancy.] Ding ding ding ding ding ding ding! Dave Hulan and Steve Teller have between them listed three items in Oz that Baum said were made of radium: 1) "a diadem of diamonds set in radium," selected for Ozma by the dowager queen of Ev, ROAD 2) the mines and home interiors of the Horners, PATCHWORK GIRL 3) the frame for the Magic Picture, TIK-TOK The Curies discovered radium only in 1898, so Baum moved quickly to establish it in Oz as well. Radium's carcinogenic qualities were a later discovery. Dave Hulan wrote: <> That's the closest I found, but the pose isn't as similar as the EMERALD CITY/YELLOW KNIGHT illustrations. Ozma's arms and head are at different angles, for instance. Earlier I mentioned a cartoony cover of ROAD that came from Reilly & Lee sometime in the 1950s. I see in the fall 1996 issue of THE BAUM BUGLE that Roland Roycraft created that dust jacket sometime between 1959 and 1964. This issue shows three of Roycroft's other covers. According to Bill Stillman's article, he drew 11 jackets in all, 8 for Baum's books and 3 for Thompson's. About LOST PRINCESS Atticus wrote: <> I think that would just transfer the convenient deity from one machine (the Belt) to another (the chandelier). It seems important that Dorothy and her party actually bring the power to vanquish Ugu; otherwise, they'd stumble across it as they stumble across so many other things. But with little preparation for Dorothy using the Belt--indeed, Baum goes out of his way to make us *not* expect that--it doesn't feel like a clean victory. Finding some way to snag the Wizard's tools would indeed be a good alternative. To satisfy most young readers, there would still have to be a way for Dorothy and the kids to come up with the solution. Ruth Berman wrote: <> A good point, though Baum had found ways of balancing this before. In SCARECROW, for instance, he starts talking about readers' demands to bring Trot to Oz, but credits the Scarecrow for managing that. And in PATCHWORK GIRL, he both acknowledges the little girl who thought of the radio telegraph and tells us the Shaggy Man is actually using it. Ruth Berman asked: <> Yes, there was Belle Boyd, the Girl Detective, who was actually a young woman, as well as Lotta, the Young Lady Detective; Lady Kate, the Dashing Female Detective; Mademoiselle Lucy, the French Lady Detective; Wild Madge, the Female Government Detective; Nell Blondin, the Lady Ferret; and several others, appearing only once per year or so. As you can tell from these names, a distaff detective was still a novelty for writers and readers. One fact that probably smoothed the acceptance of these fictional females is that Allan Pinkerton had employed real women as operatives in the 1860s. When he later wrote up his cases for the popular press (or said he did--since his office records had burned in the Chicago fire, no one can prove he was embellishing), he highlighted these women's contributions. Reportedly he also had a long affair with the head of his female department, and that was one reason why his sons shut it down after they took over the firm. But back to Oz... Dave Hulan wrote: <> I was indeed thinking of the elaborate set-up in TIN WOODMAN. It's unlike the magic Ozma does elsewhere, relying on objects and potions of the sort that can be transferred from one lab to another. On her peace mission in GLINDA Ozma does seem to be deliberately confining herself to the magic she comes by naturally. Dave also wrote: <> Ha ha--what a picture! Dorothy: Glinda, do you have any news yet? Nick Chopper: What sort of heartless person would do such a thing?! Jack Pumpkinhead: Does this mean I'm an orphan? Dorothy: The Wizard an' I should just march 'cross the Desert and make the Nomes give us back Ozma, shouldn't we? Toto: When you have a minute, Glinda, would you look for my growl? Trot: Shall I go to the lake and call for Queen Aquareine? Dorothy: What if I took the Cowardly Lion an' looked in the most dang'rous forests in the Gillikin Country? Cowardly Lion: What if you *don't*? Betsy: Would it be all right if I stayed home and looked around the palace one more time? Tik-tok: Sor-cer-ess, are we both-er-ing you? Button-Bright: Is it lunchtime? What do folks think of Cayke the Cookie Cook? She's not a fully-baked character for me. Though Neill pictures her as a young woman, Baum seems to have had someone older in mind. He calls her "the little dried-up Cookie Cook" [178], adjectives he usually reserves for the Wizard. If Cayke's an adult, rather than someone Baum meant young readers to identify with, that helps to explain her flat characterization. At the end of LOST PRINCESS Cayke is still in the Emerald City "and seemed in no hurry to go back to the Country of the Yips" [310]. We know from succeeding books that the Frogman became a big frog in the big pond of the Emerald City, but where do folks think Cayke ended up? Some critics have questioned how a dishpan can affect the quality of cookies. That doesn't concern me: by definition magic doesn't necessarily conform to logic or physical laws. I am intrigued, however, by how the Yips tell Cayke they like her cookies "except when they are burned on the bottom" [49]. Does this imply that even when she had her Dishpan her cookies weren't always perfect? Or are they referring to the batch of cookies she'd baked the morning after the theft, which "burned up in the oven!" [63]? What's the origin of the Magic Dishpan? Cayke says, "It belonged to my mother and to all my grandmothers [don't most of us have only two?], since the beginning of time. It is, I believe, the very oldest thing in all the Yip Country" [62]. Ugu's researches reveal more of the Dishpan's powers--it can grow and "transport him in an instant to any place he wished to go within the borders of the Land of Oz"--but not its origin [243]. Connecting those dots, I envision a magician in the prehistory of Oz, when the land was wracked by battles among witches, creating the Dishpan and using it to transport family and loved ones as far as possible within Oz. In a safe, secluded corner of the Winkie Country they founded the community of the Yips. (The same magician may have planted the world's only skosh there [41-2].) Eschewing magic and the dangerous world below, the Yips gradually lost their knowledge of the Dishpan's powers. Or maybe not. (I just read Jeff Freedman's MAGIC DISHPAN OF OZ, from Emerald City Press. It posits that the Dishpan works only when it's soapy clean, and that both the Frogman and Cayke went back to Yip Country.) J. L. Bell JnoLBell@compuserve.com ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1998 20:29:50 -0400 From: Richard Bauman Subject: Today's Oz Growls Sender: Richard Bauman Scott - I think you have fallen victim to "author's conceit." A fatal disease. I doubt there has ever been a book written that wouldn't benefit from some editing. You might want to reconsider in aid of getting published. Most authors I know have survived editing and lived to write again. Regards, Bear ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1998 22:33:58 -0500 From: "R. M. Atticus Gannaway" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-07-98 >Date: Sat, 05 Sep 1998 22:50:31 -0400 >From: Richard Bauman >Subject: Somedays Oz Growls >Sender: Richard Bauman >>Atticus commented: Aside from that, we hardly even *see* Ugu, who has >>tremendous potential for psychological interest--an evildoer with no sense >>of the wrongness of his actions. > >Hmmmm. "Evil"? Just don't. Oz is one of my few havens from the banal. Atticus * * * "...[T]here is something else: the faith of those despised and endangered that they are not merely the sum of damages done to them." Visit my webpage at http://members.aol.com/atty993 ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1998 22:47:26 -0700 From: ozbot Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-07-98 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Thanks to the Lost Princess theme of perception by JNBell! Great work and that really helped me to make sense of this. One thing that continually strikes me as odd is the Wizard's attitude and actions in the LPoO. His humbug nature shines through, and he actually acts as quite a bit of a jerk, I'm afraid. Although I don't have the book in front of me, I'm struck by the fact that the Wizard seemed distraught to the point of misjudgement, fearful of his life and himself without magic, and was willing to hide behind the bravery of the girls and the animals (especially when crossing the Merry go Round mountains.) Perhaps another theme is that of loss and regain. Obviously, Ozma is lost to her friends and country and Cayke loses her dishpan, but Ugu, the Wizard, Toto, the Frogman, and Scraps lose different things in different ways. Others are threatened with loss, Dorothy with her friend, Big Lavendar Bear with the faith in Little Pink, and the Irrevelant Episode Lands with fragile hold of political power. Is it any wonder, then, that Button Bright, the one most comfortable and mercurial in his own "losings" of himself is the one that holds the key to the main Loss of All: Ozma? ozbot Danny Wall ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 18:21:42 +0000 (GMT) From: David Hulan Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-04 & 07-98 9/4: Atticus: _Lost Princess_ was one of the first Oz books I read, long before I read _Ozma_. Well, not long in absolute terms,but long compared to the order in which I read the books; _Ozma_ was one of the last Oz books I read as a child. It didn't happen to be one I was given, and the lady from whom I borrowed most of the ones I didn't own didn't have that one (or _Land_). (I didn't read _Captain Salt_, _Handy Mandy_, _Wonder City_, _Scalawagons_, _Hidden Valley_, or _Merry-Go-Round_ until I was an adult; of course, the last wasn't published until I was an adult.) Because of that, Dorothy's having to learn about how to use the Magic Belt didn't bother me. Rather, I was surprised when I finally read _Ozma_ that Dorothy was able to do all kinds of things with the belt without a learning curve. That actually seemed much less plausible. True that the Thi episode is pointless, but then Irrelevant Episodes are highly characteristic of Oz books in general. _Lost Princess_ is actually less burdened with them than most of the books. Neill's failure to illustrate a mechanical dragon is unfortunate, but that's how it goes. In short, while LP is far from a flawless book, it's still my favorite of the Baums. I could pick equivalent nits with any of the others. J.L.: Interesting comments on the various societies depicted in LP. As far as the Yips are concerned, they seem to be happy enough letting the Frogman settle their disputes, so whether he's inherently wiser than they are or not, he must be making good decisions most of the time. (The same could be said for the Wizard in the first book.) Perhaps what Baum was getting at in both cases is that in the normal course of things it doesn't take extraordinary intelligence to rule well - just common sense, good will, and a willingness to make decisions when necessary. Much the same seems to be true of the High Coco-Lorum of Thi; if he were misruling the Thists they'd soon cease to accept his rulings, but the citizens of Thi seem to be happy enough and not even to realize that they're being ruled. Unless you postulate that they're all really stupid, which doesn't seem to be the case, this is an indication that the High Coco-Lorum must be ruling them with a light hand and settling their disputes in a manner perceived as fair. The Herkus are another story: I could easily see Ozma determining that they had to be taken in hand once she got back to the EC and heard about them. I can't really reconcile slavery with Ozma's government. (Maybe this is a subject for another addition to the Oz Apocrypha?) 9/7: Tyler: I think the large numbers in Dorothy's party come about more by accident than intent. The original idea was to have just the three girls and the Wizard, with the sawhorse to pull the wagon, but characters kept adding themselves to the party. Bear: I might think about self-publishing _Magic Carpet_, but I have a few other possibilities in mind to try first. The first of which is to see if a tightening of it would overcome Peter Glassman's reservations. But I have other things on my writing agenda ahead of that. J.L.: I dunno, I rather liked Toto's speaking a good deal in this book. Aside from the much later _Magical Mimics_ it's the only book where he says anything much. Jeremy: I don't remember for sure in which order I read _Lost Princess_, but I know it was very early. I know _Wizard_ and _Wishing Horse_ were the first two I read; I believe _Lost Princess_ was in the next batch of three that I got for my 6th birthday, along with _Lucky Bucky_ (the new book for the year) and, IIRC, _Magic_. But there are other books that might have been in that first batch: _Tin Woodman_, _Kabumpo_, and _Speedy_ are others that I know I had from a very young age. (Eventually my personal collection as a child also included _Land_, _Emerald City_, _Rinkitink_, _Silver Princess_, _Ozoplaning_, _Magical Mimics_, and _Shaggy Man_; the rest I either borrowed or didn't read until I was an adult. But I know none of the latter group were among my earliest acquisitions.) >But in Oz the characters ALWAYS succeed by pure chance--in fact, it's >about the only way to get ahead there. Not always, surely. Tip and company's escape in the Gump wasn't pure chance, but deliberate and intelligent effort. Dorothy and her party's rescue in _DotWiz_ wasn't pure chance (though it took her an unconscionably long time to think of making the signal to Ozma). There was little of chance in _Tin Woodman_, at least once the adventurers had gotten Mrs. Yoop's transformations undone. Etc. David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 09 Sep 98 22:49:21 (PDT) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things IT'S NOT THAT EASY BEIN' GREEN: Bob S. wrote: >[A]s one who (as all high school students were at the time) was forced >to kill and dissect a frog,... My mom took Botany instead of Zoology (She had a choice denied most of us) in order to evade having to kill and dissect frogs. In my generation we had to dissect frogs, but we were mercifully spared having to kill them ourselves...On the down side, we also had to dissect an aborted pig fetus. *That* was too much -- I was conveniently out sick that week. >I don't recall that it had particularly thick and rough skin. Rather >smooth and elastic. Frogs have smooth skin...Only toads have rough or bumpy. That's the thing with fantasy writers...They feel no need to do hard research. (Well for that matter neither do Sci-Fi writers 3/4 of the time...) Frogman: We also *do* in fact have ears, noses, and teeth. I dunno how many irate letters I've written to _Sesame Street_ every time Kermit has asserted otherwise... >Finally, I find Cayke to be a damned attractive woman and wouldn't >mind seeing more of her. She appears briefly in _The Magic Dishpan of Oz_ (BoW/Emerald City Press). MISS YOUNG GOES TO WASHINGTON (AS UNNAMED OZITE?): Today I watched my favorite Loretta Young film, _The Farmer's Daughter_, the one in which Loretta runs for Congress. I couldn't help noticing that through much of the film her hair is done up into two big round buns that vaguely resemble...poppies. -- Dave ====================================================================== -- Dave **************************************************************************** Dave Hardenbrook, DaveH47@delphi.com, http://people.delphi.com/DaveH47/ "I like to define humor as the affectionate communication of insight." -- Leo Rosten, introduction to _Oh K*A*P*L*A*N, My K*A*P*L*A*N_ ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, SEPTEMBER 10 - 11, 1998 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 07:38:34 -0700 From: plgnyc Subject: Ozzy Digest Now that everyone on the digest (well, not everyone, but lots of digest readers) has "digested" LOST PRINCESS OF OZ (is that pun worthy of the Wogglebug?), I was wondering what people thought of Jeff Freedman's THE MAGIC DISHPAN OF OZ. As most of you can guess from the title, this book definitely relates to LOST PRINCESS. Any thoughts or comments? - Peter Glassman Books of Wonder ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 09:19:24 -0600 (CST) From: Ruth Berman Subject: ozzy digest Robin Olderman: Interesting point that appearance/perception vs. reality is an important theme in a lot of Baum's work. There are several books where he uses the magical barrier that becomes ineffective when the traveller is blindfolded or disappears after the traveller gets past it. Bob Spark: "Grateful" in the sense of "affording pleasure or contentment" is not an obsolete usage (you'll find it in current dictionaries), but probably it's a good deal less common than in Baum's time. "Thick, rough skin" -- you're probably right that Baum was simply giving an incorrect description, but it's at least possible that a frog grown to giant size would have skin much thicker and rougher than a frog of ordinary size? J.L. Bell: Enjoyed David Hulan's idea of a beset Glinda organizing search parties to stop the participants from interrupting her, and enjoyed your extrapolation of how frantic the scene might have been without the dispersal. // Cayke's Magic Dishpan can't very well have belonged to "all" her grandmothers, as the paternal grandmothers presumably didn't own it, but if it's assumed that "all her grandmothers" means the maternal line and counts greats-to-the-nth- grannies as grannies, then the line makes sense. Your thought that the Yip community was founded by the magician (a woman, presumably -- maybe named Yip? -- with a husband named Harburg?) who invented the Dishpan and gave it its transportational magic seems plausible). Danny Wall: Your suggestion that Button Bright who's always getting lost himself is the right person to find the key to finding a lost Ozma is ingenious. Ruth Berman ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 16:49:06 -0500 (EST) From: Jeremy Steadman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-09-98 <> I guess this is because there was a definite purpose: finding and restoring Ozma; while some books (think Thompson here) seem to have little plot and alot of IE's. <> Reminds me of The Golden Goose . . . the way you phrased it, I mean, David. Toto's speech: Adds to the characterization . . . Until next time, Jeremy Steadman, kivel99@planetall.com http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Dimension/9619 "A good example of a parasite? Hmmm, let me think... How about the Eiffel tower?" ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 22:42:23 -0400 From: "J. L. Bell" Subject: LOST PRINCESS OF OZ commentary Sender: "J. L. Bell" Scott Hutchins wrote: <> In OZOPLANING, the gatekeeper's pal Wantowin Battles (i.e., Omby Amby) refers to him as Gardy [sp?]. But that nickname's obviously based on his title. I enjoy the implication that the Guardian of the Gates is at whichever Emerald City portal the book's heroes happen to be passing through. How? Some things are better left unexplained. About LOST PRINCESS Robin Olderman wrote: <> I agree; perspective and deceptive illusions are closely related in this book. Throughout the quest for Ozma we keep learning that if one takes a different view of something (rubber mountains, golden peach pit, girl soldiers) one sees its reality is different from how it first appeared. Danny Wall wrote: <> Loss is definitely a motif Baum wanted us to pick up on. In addition to the title LOST PRINCESS, he has chapters titled "A Terrible Loss," "Toto Loses Something," and "Button-Bright Loses Himself." Danny Wall also wrote: <> Indeed, the Wizard's shaken to his core by the loss of his magic; he faces the prospect of being a humbug once more. But I don't think that's why he's so fearful compared to the children. I suspect he grasps the danger to Oz more fully than Dorothy, who's mainly worried about Ozma herself. He's the grown-up, after all. He's the one making sure the search party has enough resources, as when he brings the blankets and leather straps across the mountains. And in the end he's the one who figures out where Ozma is. Tyler Jones wrote: <> Wouldn't everybody want to be with Dorothy? After all, not only is she nearly the most charming little girl in the world, but she always has the best adventures. The real quandary for me would be whom to follow if Dorothy and Button-Bright were in different search parties--whose luck is stronger? Probably I'd soon lose Button-Bright, and Dorothy would end up finding and traveling with him. Baum's statement about the girls' ages and his many references to Trot as little seem to have cued Eric Shanower to draw the three at different heights--a welcome differentiation. In TIK-TOK, Baum wrote that Betsy and Dorothy were the same height. Might Betsy have let herself age a bit after coming to Oz? Also on page 18, Baum's words make a telling distinction between how Betsy and Trot came to live in Ozma's palace. Betsy had to "seek refuge with Ozma," implying she had no other home. Trot, on the other hand, "had been invited" into Oz; I read that as implying she did have a choice, between homes in the Emerald City and back in California. Richard Bauman wrote: <> An author can write a mystery tale within a magical world. She or he just needs to lay out some parameters at the outset: what are the limits of magic, who could have done the crime, what are the clues? Atticus wrote about how he expected that sort of story. So will some children who read the Books of Wonder flyer calling LOST PRINCESS a "mystery." But that's not what Baum gave us. Bob Sparks wrote: <> A sad little doggy indeed, but it doesn't look like any Toto I know! (Compare to page 83, for instance.) Bob Sparks also wrote: <> A secondary meaning of "grateful" was akin to "gratifying." And perhaps the Frogman's skin was rougher than usual because he hadn't had his bath yet. Jeremy Steadman wrote: <> I had the opposite prejudice. LOST PRINCESS was the *last* Baum Oz book I read because Rand McNally had let the paperback go out of stock. I therefore had to save up and send away for a hardcover. And when it arrived, I knew that I'd never again read a Baum Oz novel for the first time. That, alas, laid a sour feeling behind my first reading. Miscellaneous LOST PRINCESS observations: My knowledge of the history of teddy bears (besides my own) is fuzzy, but that name derives from Teddy Roosevelt. Baum clearly makes a connection between the stuffed bears of Bear Center and American kids' toys [218]. For Baum to have a village of stuffed bears could be analogous to an Oz book today having a Cabbage Patch Kid Town or perhaps even a Beanie Babies-ville. On page 218, the Lavender Bear says, "A King isn't required to stay at home forever, and is he takes a notion to travel, whose business is it but his own?" At this time in American history, constitutional scholars were still debating whether the President could leave the country while in office. None did so until Wilson went to Europe for the post-WW1 treaty talks. The teddy-bearish President Taft had even avoided going to his vacation home in Canada. The Frogman's paean to female soldiers ("They are more brave than men and they have better nerves"--page 266) seems especially provocative when we recall that in 1917, the year LOST PRINCESS was published, the U.S. entered WW1. J. L. Bell JnoLBell@compuserve.com ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 00:36:51 -0400 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz Sender: Tyler Jones Scott: You got that right. _Ten Woodmen of Oz_ is an interesting book. Their final solution to the overpopulation problem is, well, unique. (Poor Tik-Tok, though). Jon Bell and Bob: Hmmm, that's two people who wanted Toto to say less. Do I spot a trend? Of course, Toto never actually said anything until _Tik-Tok_ and even then it was under protest. Order: I read the Baum 14 in order, and most of the RPT 19, except for _Kabumpo_, which I read first. I had no idea who this "Sir Hokus" guy was. Del Rey stopped publishing the FF after _WIshing Horse_, so from 30 to 40, the tail end of the FF was more or less random. The last one was _Lucky Bucky_. I finally sat down and read them all in order. I was considering reading them backwards, but there seems no point in that, since they are not a tightly plotted series. Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 09:59:48 -0400 (EDT) From: Mark Anthony Donajkowski Subject: MAJOR OZ NEWS Sources tell ZEN that HALLMARK Entertainment (Gulliver's Travels, Odyssey, Merlin, Alice in Wonderland) is working on producing a LAND OF OZ mini-series which will air on ABC in May 1999. ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 17:31:26 -0700 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz All: Okay. I think my revamped web page is ready. Go to http://tyler1.apprentice.com and see what you can find. Tyler Jones ====================================================================== -- Dave **************************************************************************** Dave Hardenbrook, DaveH47@delphi.com, http://people.delphi.com/DaveH47/ "I like to define humor as the affectionate communication of insight." -- Leo Rosten, introduction to _Oh K*A*P*L*A*N, My K*A*P*L*A*N_ ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, SEPTEMBER 12 - 13, 1998 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 10:08:06 -0700 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz Web: I got a message from John Bell, saying that some of the links on my website still did not work. I believe that John tested this on Thursday morning, before I had changed everything. If people could visit my site and poke around, testing various links, I'd appreciate it. http://tyler1.apprentice.com Also, John mentioned the difficulty of unzipping the Digest archive files on a MAC. Does anybody have any ideas about this? Thanks for any help. Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 07:54:49 -0400 (EDT) From: Ozisus@aol.com Subject: Ldssons from Oz Has anyone mentioned here that you can now find a list of ways to incorporate The Wizard of Oz into classrooms on the Web? Eric Gjovaag put it together. I've asked Jim VanderNoot to link it to the Oz Club's home page. We never found a particularly aggressive volunteer to champion a more traditional development/distribution of lesson plans for the Oz centennial, so I begged Eric to do with with all the ideas we (and others!!!) had identified. He did a terrific job. It's a great resource for teachers, librarians, etc. http://www.eskimo.com/~tiktok/ozteach.html Jane Albright ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 07:06:30 -0700 From: Bob Spark Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-11-98 > My knowledge of the history of teddy bears (besides my own) > is fuzzy, but that name derives from Teddy Roosevelt. I am operating from memory so don't place too much credence in this but, I have heard that the "Teddy Bear" name came from an incident when Teddy Roosevelt (an avid outdoorsman) was hunting bears. The guide pointed out a female with a cub for Roosevelt to shoot but he refused, not wanting to orphan the cub. The papers got wind of this story (probably from Roosevelt's spin doctors) and the name was perpetuated. Bob Spark ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 09:12:52 -0600 (CST) From: Ruth Berman Subject: ozzy digest [These comments, except for the last one, refer back several days. The earlier copy emailed to Dave Hardenbrook seems to have vanished in cyberspace.] J.L. Bell & David Hulan: I think the "Pirates" illo David mentioned is as close as Neill got to an interior illo similar to the "slinky Ozma" cover. A couple of drawings in Neill's own Oz books are also a bit like it. But none of them is quite as slinky, not having so long and tight a hobble skirt. (In fact, the "slinky" Ozma would barely be able even to hobble, unless we assume the skirt is made of an elastic fabric similar to the Magic Carpet and expands to permit movement). David Hulan: I seem to recall a comment from a "Bugle" suggesting that the Scarecrow and the Tin Woodman could take Professor Wogglebug's Education pills by putting them inside themselves. (Whether they'd have any effect that way is another question?) Bear: Holmes doesn't meet anyone who turns out to be a powerful magician, but he meets several who seem to be powerfully magic at first (Hound of the Baskervilles, Sussex Vampire, Devil's Foot Root), and presumably that's at least some guide to how he would have acted with actuals. In fact, the late Dean Dickensheet took this notion to extremes one time, in a very short Holmes-in-Oz story, in which Holmes is called in by Ozma to investigate something or other, and, after he has concentrated a moment, the entire country and most of the inhabitants vanish, leaving behind a flat grey plain and some puzzled mortals. Holmes explains apologetically that it's probably his fault, as he always begins an investigation by eliminating the impossible. (And, of course, there was my "Sherlock Holmes in Oz" story, which you may have seen in "Oziana" originally, or reprinted in "The Game's Afoot," ed. Marvin Kaye, published by St. Martin's Press.) Dean's story originally appeared in one of Bruce Pelz's fanzines, and I reprinted it in one of the three anthologies I did of Holmesiana from sf fanzines. Scott H: Possible name of Guardian of the Gates (assuming there aren't really four of them, identical quadruplets, to cover the four gates without needing magical roller skates to have him on duty at the right time and gate no matter which one's being knocked at by a given visitor) -- maybe "Guardy" (as he's occasionally called) is actually his name? (Short for Edgard? Or Ozgard, with a touch of the Vognerian?) Dave Hardenbrook: Well, tell Melody we miss her and hope it'll work out for her to take part in the Digest again later. // Yes, I'd forgotten about "Star of the Evening, Beautiful Star" -- wonder if it was influenced by "Beautiful Dreamer," or if the similarity is just an accident of similar meter. Bear: In commenting on the importance of accepting the process of being edited, you shifted the topic to being edited by an editor -- the earlier couple of comments were about being edited by a script- doctor. The two are considerably different, as a script-doctor has no power to accept a manuscript for publication, and (usually) poor credentials for the claim that the script-doctoring will make the ms. more likely to get accepted. When the person trying to edit a manuscript is actually the editor, of course, you're right that it's a good idea to consider accepting the changes suggested -- but it's almost never a good idea to accept all the suggestions automatically. Ruth Berman ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 13:42:19 -0400 (EDT) From: Mark Anthony Donajkowski Subject: MORE OZ NEWS ARRIVED: Dorothy, the Scarecrow, the Tin Man, the Cowardly Lion -- and Toto, too -- on a brand new CD from Rhino Records, "The Story and Songs from 'The Wizard of Oz.'" The CD features dialogue and the musical score from the beloved 1939 classic, which is set for a theatrical re-release this Christmas. Wicked witches, beware. ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 15:52:55 -0500 (EST) From: Jeremy Steadman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-11-98 << My knowledge of the history of teddy bears (besides my own) is fuzzy>> Cute. But I am glad to see I'm not the only one making rotten puns here. ;-) Jeremy Steadman, Royal Historian of Oz kivel99@planetall.com http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Dimension/9619 "A good example of a parasite? Hmmm, let me think... How about the Eiffel tower?" ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 16:09:26 -0400 From: David Levitan Subject: Ozzy Digest Archive X-Accept-Language: ru My Ozzy Digest archive is now working again. Sorry for the problems -- David Levitan wizardofoz@bigfoot.com ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 16:19:59 -0400 (EDT) From: LuVCHACHI@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-11-98 In a message dated 9/11/1998 4:15:21 AM Eastern Daylight Time, DaveH47@delphi.com writes: << Sources tell ZEN that HALLMARK Entertainment (Gulliver's Travels, Odyssey, Merlin, Alice in Wonderland) is working on producing a LAND OF OZ mini-series which will air on ABC in May 1999. >> Where did you hear about this? ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 23:49:22 +0000 (GMT) From: David Hulan Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-09 & 11-98 9/9: Bob Spark: > Finally, I find Cayke to be a damned attractive woman and wouldn't >mind seeing more of her. She's attractive as Neill draws her, and her personality is pleasant enough, but Baum's physical descriptions of her indicate that she's nothing like as good-looking as she's drawn. J.L.: >The Curies discovered radium only in 1898, so Baum moved quickly to >establish it in Oz as well. Radium's carcinogenic qualities were a later >discovery. That early? I'd remembered it's being in the late 19-oughts. Shows I should check my references before speaking. >I think that would just transfer the convenient deity from one machine (the >Belt) to another (the chandelier). It seems important that Dorothy and her >party actually bring the power to vanquish Ugu; otherwise, they'd stumble >across it as they stumble across so many other things. But with little >preparation for Dorothy using the Belt--indeed, Baum goes out of his way to >make us *not* expect that--it doesn't feel like a clean victory. Agreed. If Baum had shown us Dorothy working out how to use the Belt, instead of having her tell us (and the rest of her team) about it after she'd used it, that part of the story would have worked better. Liked your elaboration of what Glinda might have gone through if she hadn't sent out the search parties! I think Cayke ended up going back to the Yip country (probably via Magic Belt); unlike the Frogman, she seems the sort of person who'd enjoy a stay in the EC, but would then want to return to the people she's known all her life. This is just my opinion, though. And I've always thought of the cookies that were burned on the bottom as ones that Cayke baked after she lost the dishpan - maybe not the ones that "burned up in the oven," but a replacement batch that still didn't come out well. She does mention having made three batches after losing the dishpan, and there might have been even more that she doesn't mention. 9/11: Peter Glassman: It's been a while since I read _Magic Dishpan_, but I remember liking it better the first time I read it than the second. It seemed a little too much like what it probably started as: a story a father told his children including them as characters in an Oz story, which he then decided to write down and see if he could get published. I rate it toward the lower end of the ECP originals - better than _Magic Chest_, _Speckled Rose_, or _Lavender Bear_, but not as good as any of the others. (The illustrations also vie with _Queen Ann_ for the worst of all the ECP books, in my opinion.) Incidentally, I ordered the BoW _Lost Princess_ on 8/11 and haven't received it yet. Has it been delayed? Ruth: >Your thought that >the Yip community was founded by the magician (a woman, >presumably -- maybe named Yip? -- with a husband named Harburg?) >who invented the Dishpan and gave it its transportational magic seems >plausible). *G*R*O*A*N* :-) Jeremy: >I guess this is because there was a definite purpose: finding and >restoring Ozma; while some books (think Thompson here) seem to have >little plot and alot of IE's. There are some of Thompson's books with little plot, but most of them have more plot than most of Baum's. Despite which, they also have more IEs, or perhaps I should say the IEs are even more Irrelevant, usually serving just to pad out the story, and for the most part are not very intrinsically interesting. While _DotWiz_, for instance, is really nothing but a bunch of IEs, the individual places Dorothy and Co. go (with the exception, imho, of the Braided Man, who I thought was boring even when I was a child) are interesting and exciting. Thompson's equivalents (e.g. Doorways, Tune Town, Rith Metic) aren't very. J.L.: >In OZOPLANING, the gatekeeper's pal Wantowin Battles (i.e., Omby Amby) >refers to him as Gardy [sp?]. Actually, it's the Wizard who refers to the Guardian of the Gates as "Guardy." (At least, he's the first one to do so; maybe Wanny does so at some later point.) Jellia's just told the Wizard that the Guardian has told her that he's been at his post for the last forty years and isn't going to desert it to go to the Wizard's party. Which is why I don't think there was a change in Guardians. >An author can write a mystery tale within a magical world. She or he just >needs to lay out some parameters at the outset: what are the limits of >magic, who could have done the crime, what are the clues? Indeed. To anyone who's a fan of both fantasy and mystery I highly recommend Daniel Hood's series that starts with _Fanuilh_ and goes on with _Wizard's Heir_ and a couple more volumes. Excellent combination of the two, imho. The world in question resembles Renaissance Italy more than anything else, but with magic. Stuffed bears antedate the presidency of Teddy Roosevelt, but they became popular in the US about that time (I believe they originated in Germany) and his name was attached to them, and then spread back across the Pond. I know that because in _When We Were Very Young_ Milne refers to a Pooh-like bear as "Teddy," and of course Pooh himself is originally introduced as "Edward Bear" in _Winnie-the-Pooh_. (In those days, "Ted" was a usual nickname for "Edward" as well as "Theodore." May still be, for all I know. "Theodore Sturgeon" was born Edward Hamilton Waldo, but was called "Ted," and later took the pen name and eventually, IIRC, took it as his legal name as well.) David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 21:06:39 -0400 From: "J. L. Bell" Subject: LOST PRINCESS OF OZ lines Sender: "J. L. Bell" Folks with Web access now may want to check out: http://thunder.indstate.edu/~christom/e1.htm It's a fanciful image by Michael S. Christopher. Ruth Berman wrote: <> In writing my first book-length Oz manuscript, I realized I'd included two episodes in which the heroes, faced with a seemingly impassable barrier, use logic to identify a way it *might* be crossed, screw up their courage, and press forward. In both cases the barrier turns out to be partly illusive--after the hero's on the other side. I worried that pattern was too repetitive. Then I recalled many such moments in Baum's books, and decided such episodes underscore a major theme of WIZARD and most of its sequels: You have to move if you want to get anywhere. [Though cf. Button-Bright, LOST PRINCESS, p. 158] Comments on other individual lines in LOST PRINCESS-- 58: "There is not so much [tin in Oz] as there is of gold and silver," Baum says, implying that tin's more valuable. Yet Corporal Waddle's gun barrel is made of tin [199]. And in "Ozma and the Little Wizard" in LIL WIZARD STORIES, the Wizard speaks of tin as a baser metal. This seems to be a cute idea Baum didn't really commit himself to. 59: Wiljon's rejoinder, "Nor have I seen a copper-plated lobster," is one of my favorites in the whole series. 71: Ojo says, "Only wicked people steal." Sanctimonious words from the Emerald City's only ex-con! 143: Hank says, "Once I lost my bray, so that I couldn't call to Betsy to let her know I was hungry. That was before I could talk, you know." It must have been within the short period between when TIK-TOK says Betsy met Hank on board ship and their arrival in Oz--perhaps during the TIK-TOK adventure. On this same page the Woozy says, "I don't care for such things [as growls] myself." Finding out the true nature of his growl in PATCHWORK GIRL seems to have soured him on all growls. 200: Baum has Corporal Waddles say that "light lavender...is, of course, second-cousin to royal purple." That phrasing may be germane to figuring out how he meant us to read Zeb's remarks about family relations in DOROTHY & WIZARD. 304: Does anyone recall if "the pretty lake which was but a short distance from Ozma's home" was mentioned in the series before this? It appears on the TIK-TOK (and LOST PRINCESS) maps, but those maps might have prompted this mention in Baum's text, rather than the other way around. Peter Glassman wrote: <> I was impressed by Freedman's word-picture of Scraps, Nick, and the Scarecrow when we first see them, and the preceding depiction of a paranoid human/animal society. A much more ominous welcome to Oz than usual, it caught my attention well. And it's always nice to see Planetty again. I was neutral on Freedman's use of the two sisters, one much younger than the usual American visitor to Oz. While their arrival is in some ways novel, I couldn't shake a suspicion he was writing for and about his own daughters. The element of MAGIC DISHPAN I didn't cotton to was the allegorical villains. Using them made the tale more preachy than most Oz books. Even when Baum gives us a lesson through Ugu, Mombi, Blinkie, or other antagonists, they have distinct personalities and human motivations. The art, while more cartoony than the Neill/Shanower/Kramer style I admire, was effective in its way. Alas, the quotation marks didn't curl--a pet peeve for me of the same magnitude that Kabumpo's a pet for King Pompus. Peter, were Sir Dynar of Regalia (an anagram of Randy) and Kabina (heretofore unknown sister to Kabumpo) replacements for Thompson's copyrighted PURPLE PRINCE characterizations? J. L. Bell JnoLBell@compuserve.com ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 18:37:46 -0700 From: ozbot Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-11-98 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Ruth said: > Danny Wall: Your suggestion that Button Bright who's always getting > lost himself is the right person to find the key to finding a lost Ozma is > ingenious. > Thanks! and JBell: (the Wizard losing his magic) >But I don't think that's why he's > so fearful compared to the children. I suspect he grasps the danger to Oz > more fully than Dorothy, who's mainly worried about Ozma herself. Me: I guess I'm always surprised at an undercurrent of the Wizard's appearances that he's often not the most trustworthy or at least, not the most forthright character. Such stuff as his intial appearances, mysterious role he played between Ozma and Mombi, etc. Witness the blankets and leather straps when he crosses the MGRMnts. My first thought was that Wizard was trying to get some "padding" and protection for himself. ozbot Danny Wall ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 00:42:21 -0400 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz Sender: Tyler Jones _Magic Dishpan_: This was a pretty good story. Author Jeff Freedman continues the Neill-esque tradition of taking the color scheme of each quadrant to the extreme: Absolutely everything is yellow (or whatever color), even the skin color of the citizens. The lone exception is Yellow Brick Roads in every country. The idea that the Magic Dishpan can only operate when it is clean is an interesting one. Most magic items have rules regarding their use, and it looks like the Dishpan is no exception. I was particulary struck by a comment about the Gillikin country being less civilized than the other quadrants of Oz. Baum frequently mentioned this, although he never went into detail. Later authors ignored this statement, so it's good to see it coming out again. We see that the dragon of copyright law has reared its ugly head. The Magicians must attack Randy and Planetty instead of Joe King of Uptown, who would be the obvious target for taking over the land of the Gillikins. The same applies to "Kabina" the elephant, as opposed to Kabumpo. I was a little concerned at a new power given to Glinda's Great Book of Records. You can now ask it questions, and it will flip to the relevant section and give you information on it. Another inconsistancy was the fact that the Magicians' powers did not seem to affect animals, until the very end, when Kabina fell under the spell of one of them. That particular magician claimed to be the most powerful, so that may explain it. The ending was not quite as traditional as most, but it came close. Ozma and her magic belt were not used, but aside from one small part, the whole episode was wrapped up by a traditional Oz character and a piece of ultra-powerful magic. Overall, and despite my nit-picking, I really enjoyed the tale, as it is one of the better stories out there. The two girls were very likeable, and the idea of a cadre of magicians, each with his own power of mischief, is a terrific plot device. I especially liked the fact that there were no IE's. This is not to say that IE's are bad (in moderation), but it's nice to be able to read a story that's does not depend on them. If I reviewed BOW books, I'd give this one three and a half stars. Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 02:25:08 -0400 (EDT) From: JOdel@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-11-98 Lost Princess. Hm. I can't recall whether this is one of the ones that we had or not. I think that it was not. I also recall it not being one of my favorites, but can't really say why not. Rereading it, it comes across as a much better "story" than I remember it being. Certainly, it was disquieting to have the "worst" happen before the story even starts and spend the rest of the book trying to put it right. I also liked Mr Bell"s interpretation. It does hang together. And I also like David Hulan's suggestion of Glinda sending out the search parties in order to get people out of her hair. Danny Wall's comments about the wizard's poor judgement in this book, to me, tend to point out that one of the things that you can count on in an Oz adventure is that the "grown-up" characters are not superior to the child characters. Either one has just as good of a chance as the other of comming up with the clue which will solve the problem, or find a way out of the difficulty. This is probably one reason why the books continue to be favorites of children through the generations. (And points out the contrast between Baum's work and Lewis Carroll's, where just about every character Alice meets is a "grown-up", who, however witless, ineffectual or bizarre, never lets her forget it. I hated the Alice books.) All in all, while I enjoyed the reread, I haven't a lot to say about the book. Sorry. ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 13 Sep 98 09:33:52 (PDT) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things In regard to _Magic Dishpan_, I generally liked it, although not as much as _Glass Cat_, _Masquarade_, or _Queen Ann_. I like the "Seeds of Dischord" idea (It would certainly explain the "Keep Hate Alive" mentality of our current Congress). I agree with others about the illustrations though -- much too cartoony, IMHO. Here's a couple of questions for the group: Who is your favorite Oz illustrator? and Who would you have liked to have seen illustrate an Oz book who never did? I like the idea of discussing relevant non-Canonial books with the current BCF...How do others feel? -- Dave ====================================================================== -- Dave **************************************************************************** Dave Hardenbrook, DaveH47@delphi.com, http://people.delphi.com/DaveH47/ "I like to define humor as the affectionate communication of insight." -- Leo Rosten, introduction to _Oh K*A*P*L*A*N, My K*A*P*L*A*N_ ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, SEPTEMBER 14, 1998 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 14:23:42 -0400 (EDT) From: Mark Anthony Donajkowski Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-13-98 > Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 16:19:59 -0400 (EDT) > From: LuVCHACHI@aol.com > Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-11-98 > > In a message dated 9/11/1998 4:15:21 AM Eastern Daylight Time, > DaveH47@delphi.com writes: > > << Sources tell ZEN that HALLMARK Entertainment (Gulliver's Travels, > Odyssey, Merlin, Alice in Wonderland) is working on > producing a LAND OF OZ mini-series which will air on > ABC in May 1999. >> > > Where did you hear about this? > from zenentertainment one of the many zines i get that keeps me informed ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 13:46:22 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-13-98 J.L.: Radium's radioactivity was what I suspect supposedly the cause of the Horners odd hair and horns, like the fanciful mutations of SF. Ruth: I never said I wouldn't allow an editor to make suggestions, but frequently edits professors etc. have made have changed my original meaning/intent, which is what I find unacceptable. David: There are stuffed bears of all names, including the very rare Peter Bear, which made a realistic growling sound, and was frequently opened during shipping to find out what the noise was (a possible security threat). Carl Franklin's _One True Thing_, as we see in the previews, is loaded with MGM Oz references. Scott ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 14:29:26 -0500 From: "R. M. Atticus Gannaway" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-09-98 DAVID HULAN: >In short, while LP is far from a flawless book, it's still my favorite of >the Baums. I could pick equivalent nits with any of the others. While there are certainly flaws in Baum's other books, in my opinion LP contains one of the most drastic inconsistencies ("Duh, how does this Belt thingy work?") and some of the most dramatic deviations from character (pointed out by Bob Spark and others) in the First Fourteen. Atticus * * * "...[T]here is something else: the faith of those despised and endangered that they are not merely the sum of damages done to them." Visit my webpage at http://members.aol.com/atty993 ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 14:34:26 -0500 From: "R. M. Atticus Gannaway" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-11-98 JEREMY: ><Episodes are highly characteristic of Oz books in general. _Lost >Princess_ is actually less burdened with them than most of the >books.>> > >I guess this is because there was a definite purpose: finding and >restoring Ozma; while some books (think Thompson here) seem to have >little plot and alot of IE's. IIRC, you haven't even read RPT. You might care to before making such a statement. Baum was certainly an IE user himself (think ROAD, EMERALD CITY). The Oz maps would be sparse indeed if not for RPT. Atticus * * * "...[T]here is something else: the faith of those despised and endangered that they are not merely the sum of damages done to them." Visit my webpage at http://members.aol.com/atty993 ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 15:50:05 -0500 (EST) From: Jeremy Steadman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-13-98 Stuffed animals: But how much does Teddy have to Bear on our current situation? No place like Holmes? To be honest, I broke almost into hysterics at Dean Dickensheet's representation of Sherlock in Oz. Ted for Edward?? It's strange enough that you can get Betty from Elizabeth and Jack from James--Edward to Ted to Theodore seems stretching it...But then again, I frequently have been accused of being narrow-minded. (No joke.) << 143: Hank says, "Once I lost my bray, so that I couldn't call to Betsy to let her know I was hungry. That was before I could talk, you know." It must have been within the short period between when TIK-TOK says Betsy met Hank on board ship and their arrival in Oz--perhaps during the TIK-TOK adventure. >> Do we know for certain that animals begin to speak IMMEDIATELY upon getting to Oz? I mean, might it take some longer to adjust to speech than others? <> You did know that the astronaut who landed on Mars by mistake said, "I didn't planet this way..." (just before inviting fellow astronauts to a Planet tea...) Kabina: Kabumpo's, er, wife? <> Works for me. Jeremy Steadman, kivel99@planetall.com http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Dimension/9619 "A good example of a parasite? Hmmm, let me think... How about the Eiffel tower?" ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 16:36:26 -0400 From: "J. L. Bell" Subject: LOST PRINCESS OF OZ b/w art Sender: "J. L. Bell" Rotten puns, Jeremy Steadman? What rotten puns?! Bob Sparks wrote: <> I've read that account, too. (Roosevelt was a marketer's dream; he also came out with "Good to the last drop!" at the Maxwell House hotel.) Two early literary spin-offs of the hunting story were the ROOSEVELT BEARS picture books and Baum's "Why Does Our Teddy Hunt the Bear?" poem reprinted in this year's OZ-STORY. I also recall seeing a very early silent newsreel about the cub incident--so early that its "dramatic recreation" was considered valid journalism. But I don't know in what year it occurred, and whether it simply gave a new name to stuffed bears or actually initiated the craze in America. Danny Wall wrote: <> I'm sure he was doing that, too; he's a fairly elderly man, after all. I think Joyce Odell is on target when she writes, <> The Wizard has great sins before WIZARD to live down, and little quirks even after he's become a palace favorite. Baum, an old showman himself, never lost sight of the Wizard's pride when his magic saves the day or awes a crowd. Thompson reveals his competitive instinct when Jinnicky or other powerful male magicians come around. And Neill has him sauntering through the Emerald City in disguises, fooling innocent boys from Munchkinland. (I think Joyce is perhaps a little harsh in complaining that <<[in] Lewis Carroll's [books], just about every character Alice meets is a "grown-up", who, however witless, ineffectual or bizarre, never lets her forget it.>> That's quite true, but it's also one of the most subversive messages of Carroll's worlds: Grown-ups are CRAZEEE! Unlike Baum, however, he provided no out, no haven where adults and children interact on an equal basis. Eventually Alice has to take things in her own hands and shake.) How's this for irony? After urging since March that the Books of Wonder color-plate edition of LOST PRINCESS would help our discussion, I still don't have a copy. [Does anyone?] Therefore, I have nothing to say about those plates. Before you get too excited, though, I have some comments on the line drawings-- 4 (white cover edition): I think this is our first picture of Glinda's lovely swan chariot, as described also on page 73. The birds seem to be tethered to it by invisible harnesses. In GLINDA and other books, the sorceress has a "stork aerial chariot" instead, or as well. 25: This picture of Scraps having her eyes sewn on could well be taken as a picture of Aunt Em. But the seamstress doesn't look like any other drawing of Em. And why would she choose a dim, book-stuffed garret to do her mending? I therefore view this drawing as a picture of Margolotte creating the Patchwork Girl in the first place, back in the cottage she shared with that owner of magic books, Dr. Pipt. 38, 47: I like how Neill takes care to depict the Yips' houses and clothing as different from those of regular Ozians, though both styles are unlike what readers would be used to. 55: An error: Neill's art of the Frogman leaping the gulf around the Yip country should show Cayke on his back. 75: I believe this is the first map within an Oz book's text, as opposed to the TIK-TOK maps in an endpaper. The border lines and other geographical features seem to be traced from that earlier map. One interesting detail: since the TIK-TOK map of Oz was designed to be first an endpaper with its center disappearing into the book's binding, the cartographer made sure the narrow stripe down the very center didn't contain any necessary information. Letters in the labels don't land there, for instance. The Emerald City presented the mapmaker with a challenge, though, because it has to fall dead center. The capital was therefore drawn as an oval, though it looks circular when the map is bound into a book (and on the accompanying Oz-and-surroundings map). Whoever drew the map for LOST PRINCESS must have traced an unbound copy of that TIK-TOK map, however, because here the Emerald City comes out oval. 76: The shadowy outline behind the Shaggy Man seems to be our only image of his brother's face. No wonder Shaggy thinks the young man is so handsome! 101: On page 70 Baum says Button-Bright has started to dress like Ojo, though in "different [unspecified] colors." Neill continues to dress him like an upper-class boy from America. I suspect Button-Bright would simply put on whatever clothes he found in his closet when he thought of changing. I always liked how Ozma had her tailors provide the Shaggy Man with shaggy clothes, so it makes sense to me that those same tailors would continue to make Button-Bright the sort of outfits he's used to. 275: As in other books, Neill employs a pattern of parallel lines to provide uniform shading for parts of his drawings. Usually he uses that pattern for backgrounds, though on the copyright page such lines tint the Frogman's suit. In this art he tilts the lines to show the tilting of Ugu's room--clever! About MAGIC DISHPAN Tyler Jones wrote: <> In conjunction with the allegorical wizards of ignorance, suspicion, etc., the Ozians' skin colors turn the book into an obvious lesson about racism. This is one theme I found too preachy. Tyler Jones wrote: <> Joe King appears in WISHING HORSE, so a few aspects of his character are in the public domain: his high horse, his nominal rule over the Gillikins. But I don't think he reveals enough personality in that book for a current author to use him at length without either (a) violating Thompson's GIANT HORSE copyright, (b) contradicting Thompson's GIANT HORSE characterization, or (c) boring readers (not that Sir Dynar is at all dynamic). I didn't miss Joe, though; I assumed Regalia was in this book because of Planetty's appeal for girls. Tyler Jones wrote: <> This bothered me, too. When I was a boy, we didn't have any of this words-in-red, automatic-searching claptrap! If you wanted to learn something from the Great Book of Records, you had to read it all the way through! In a blizzard! Barefoot! J. L. Bell JnoLBell@compuserve.com ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 16:22:45 -0500 From: Gordon Birrell Subject: Ozzy Digest Tyler: Most of your links work fine. At the bottom of the HAAC page, however, the link to The Land of Oz has something odd about it (http://tyler1.apprentice.com/..\oz.htm) that produces the dreaded 404 Object Not Found message. >Also, John mentioned the difficulty of unzipping the Digest archive >files on a MAC. Does anybody have any ideas about this? I didn't have any problem unzipping these files on my Mac using Unzip 2.0.1. --Gordon Birrell ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 18:03:23 -0400 (EDT) From: Ozmama@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-13-98 In a message dated 98-09-13 14:02:37 EDT, you write: << Here's a couple of questions for the group: Who is your favorite Oz illustrator? and Who would you have liked to have seen illustrate an Oz book who never did? >> Neill, of course. Most of his work is terrific. Who would I like to have illustrated an Oz book? Kay Nielsen. (Neilson? Too lazy to get up to check spelling) It would give Oz a totally different look, I know, but it would've been beautiful and lyric...especially the color work. Sigh. ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 15:34:35 -0700 From: Bob Spark Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-13-98 Dave, > I like the idea of discussing relevant non-Canonial books with the current > BCF...How do others feel? > I also like the idea, though it presents problems for those of us who probably don't possess (or have access to) said non-canonical books. Not an insurmountable problem, but one that needs discussion. Bob Spark ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 18:32:21 -0400 (EDT) From: LuVCHACHI@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-13-98 In a message dated 9/13/98 2:02:07 PM Eastern Daylight Time, DaveH47@delphi.com writes: << ARRIVED: Dorothy, the Scarecrow, the Tin Man, the Cowardly Lion -- and Toto, too -- on a brand new CD from Rhino Records, "The Story and Songs from 'The Wizard of Oz.'" The CD features dialogue and the musical score from the beloved 1939 classic, which is set for a theatrical re-release this Christmas. Wicked witches, beware. >> is this a regular cd? ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 19:19:10 -0400 (EDT) From: Orange5193@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-13-98 In re: Name of the Guardian of the Gate- he's Private Gruph in the pre- Broadway programs for the Baum/ Tietjens musical, and even had a basso buffo song (cut very early in Chicago), which includes one of the most brilliant lyrical lines ever written... Gruph: "The gate, the gate, the gate, the gate!" Ah- they just don't write 'em like that anymore... Yours, eybrow deep in said song for the last week, James Doyle ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 22:14:02 -0400 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz Sender: Tyler Jones Dave: I like the idea of discussing non-canonical books with respect to the BCF. It lets us see how that book has affected Oz fans over the decades. Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 01:12:13 -0400 (EDT) From: JOdel@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-13-98 >I think that would just transfer the convenient deity from one machine (the >>Belt) to another (the chandelier). It seems important that Dorothy and her >>party actually bring the power to vanquish Ugu; This wouldn't have been all that hard to do if Baum had thought about it a bit more. We are led to believe that there might be all sorts of useful tricks in the wizard's black bag. So here we are with Ugu having taunted the rescue party, turned the room upside down, and left the magic implements in plain sight, but unreachable in their cage, now near the ceiling. Consider: 1. The Frogman has taken a dose of zosozo, and now has Herkulian strength. 2. Scraps, although comparitively lightweight, is solid enough to be thrown some distance without danger of being harmed by a fall. So, while the Frogman -- due to the chandelier now being in the way -- may not be able to make a clear jump up to the cage himself, he should be able to toss Scraps up high enough for her to grab hold of the bars, (which may take more than one try) which are far enough apart for her to either squeeze through herself, or to reach through them to the bag and toss the wizard whatever he wants from it. Fairly simple, you must admit, but all the pieces were clearly in place for it, and any one of the party might have thought of it. Only none of them did, and it was not used. For the record, I also find Dorothy's experiments on sleeping companions to be objectionable. Nor does Baum ever follow up on it in future books. So it feels even more out of place. ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 07:53:09 -0400 From: "J. L. Bell" Subject: teddy bears in Oz correction Sender: "J. L. Bell" A correction: The Baum poem published in this year's OZ-STORY is called "Teddy Bear Hunt," and its first line is "Why does our Teddy hunt bear, Papa?" It first appeared in FATHER GOOSE'S YEAR BOOK in 1907, which helps to date the teddy bear fad to before Roosevelt left office. J. L. Bell JnoLBell@compuserve.com ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 14 Sep 98 10:04:31 (PDT) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things Bob Spark wrote: > I also like the idea, though it presents problems for those of us >who probably don't possess (or have access to) said non-canonical >books. Not an insurmountable problem, but one that needs discussion. Also, I realize now that there is a problem with scheduling the "relevant" non-canonical books -- Many of them have direct connections with books we've done already...As an example: _How the Wiz Came_ -> _Wizard_ _Disenchanted Princess_ -> _Land_ & _Dorothy & Wiz_ _Nome K.'s Shadow_ -> _Ozma_ _Patchw. Bride_ -> _Patchw. Girl_ _Glass Cat_ -> _Patchw. Girl_ & _Tik-Tok_ _Queen Ann_ -> _Tik-Tok_ I can see how I can schedule some, like when we do _Glinda_ would be a prefect time to also consider _Red Reera & Enchanted Easter Eggs_, but many others will be a problem. And "access" to the non-Canonicals is a matter to be considered Suggestions, anyone? -- Dave ====================================================================== -- Dave **************************************************************************** Dave Hardenbrook, DaveH47@delphi.com, http://people.delphi.com/DaveH47/ "I like to define humor as the affectionate communication of insight." -- Leo Rosten, introduction to _Oh K*A*P*L*A*N, My K*A*P*L*A*N_ ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, SEPTEMBER 15 - 17, 1998 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 11:34:29 -0700 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz All: Dave has gone over most of my website and has found that all of the links pretty much work. There was an error on the "What is Oz?" page, that did not show my little schematic map of Oz. This image reference has now been fixed, and Oz in its five colors should now blaze forth. http://tyler1.apprentice.com Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 13:47:46 -0500 From: "R. M. Atticus Gannaway" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-14-98 ON NON-CANONICAL BCF-RELATED TEXTS: >I can see how I can schedule some, like when we do _Glinda_ would be >a prefect time to also consider _Red Reera & Enchanted Easter Eggs_, >but many others will be a problem. And "access" to the non-Canonicals >is a matter to be considered > >Suggestions, anyone? I don't see how there's much to consider, really. All there is to do is to be horribly exclusionary. Those who have read the related books can bring up points or examples which may be alternately ignored or not, as with anything else on the Digest. I doubt anyone will be able to sit down and type up an e-text version of these things. Atticus * * * "...[T]here is something else: the faith of those despised and endangered that they are not merely the sum of damages done to them." Visit my webpage at http://members.aol.com/atty993 ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 15:02:09 -0400 (EDT) From: Mark Anthony Donajkowski Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-14-98 > In a message dated 9/13/98 2:02:07 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > DaveH47@delphi.com writes: > > << ARRIVED: Dorothy, the Scarecrow, the Tin Man, the Cowardly Lion -- and > Toto, too -- on a brand new CD from Rhino Records, "The Story and Songs > from 'The Wizard of Oz.'" The CD features dialogue and the musical score > from the beloved 1939 classic, which is set for a theatrical re-release > this Christmas. Wicked witches, beware. >> > > is this a regular cd? > i posted all the info i have on it it sounds like a regular cd ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 15:39:14 -0500 (EST) From: Jeremy Steadman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-14-98 > JEREMY: > >< >Episodes are highly characteristic of Oz books in general. _Lost > >Princess_ is actually less burdened with them than most of the > >books.>> > > > >I guess this is because there was a definite purpose: finding and > >restoring Ozma; while some books (think Thompson here) seem to have > >little plot and alot of IE's. > > IIRC, you haven't even read RPT. You might care to before making such a > statement. Baum was certainly an IE user himself (think ROAD, EMERALD > CITY). The Oz maps would be sparse indeed if not for RPT. Hey, I resent that! (Not to sound like a whiny child, but...) I have so read several of RPT's books!--I just don't think they hold as much substance as Baums. And yes, I agree, Baum used IE's to "pad" the story too. BUT, and here is the important thing, RPT used them to excess, without real reason, while LFB used them in moderation. You would notice, upon reading my book (published by Buckethead before it changed its name) that I only use IE's to advance the plot. That probably came out wrong. The essence of all that is that yes, I agreee with you to an extent (your last two sentences). So we're not really that far apart in our opinions. Much. J.L. Bell: > Rotten puns, Jeremy Steadman? What rotten puns?! Beats me--I don't make puns. Nor am I ever facetious. > I can see how I can schedule some, like when we do _Glinda_ would be > a prefect time to also consider _Red Reera & Enchanted Easter Eggs_, > but many others will be a problem. And "access" to the non-Canonicals > is a matter to be considered > > Suggestions, anyone? Hmmm...Everyone had good points--I don't have the funds to go out and buy lots of books just like _that_....Just have everyone discuss the books that each of us have at the appropriate time? Have everyone vote on each book whether we want to discuss it? Implore the publishers to send free copies to each of the Digesters as a sort of evaluation thing? Nope, no answers here, just suggestions. (And pretty dumb suggestions at that...) Another suggestion: How bout I shut up now? Here goes: Jeremy Steadman, Royal Historian of Oz kivel99@planetall.com http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Dimension/9619 "A good example of a parasite? Hmmm, let me think... How about the Eiffel tower?" ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 15:14:44 -0600 (CST) From: Ruth Berman Subject: ozzy digest Jane Albright: Setting up even an informal set of suggestions on using Oz in teaching sounds like a fine idea -- it's nice of both you and Eric G. to have done that. J. L. Bell: The "pretty lake which was but a short distance from Ozma's home" -- if you're right in assuming that the lake is the one shown on the map (and it seems plausible that it would be), then the answer to whether it's mentioned earlier in the Oz books is no, as it is first named as Lake Quad in Neill's "Lucky Bucky" (and he also mentioned it without name in "Scalawagons"), but the lake also plays a role in the ms fragment of "An Oz Book" (printed in the "Bugle" in 1975), and probably written by Baum (date unknown, but later than "John Dough"). // A good many years back, the "Bugle" had a Munchkincon report written by John Bell, and mentioning that John Bell won a prize at the con for an Oz essay. How about running the essay through the Digest sometime? Or has it been printed somewhere (not in the "Bugle"?)? J.L. Bell & David Hulan: I've been poking about in microfilms of old newspaper, and was amused to find a top-of-the-front-page story in a July 1905 Chicago "Tribune" about a local scientist who claimed to have carried out an experiment in which he sterilized some petri dishes and then exposed them to radium, and found after while that bacteria were growing there, created by the lifegiving radium. The sub-heading suggested that perhaps radium was a "Germ of Health." Probably Baum would have read this article. Dave Hardenbrook: When it comes to favorite Oz illustrators, I can't choose between Denslow and Neill. Time was I would have said Neill, but after Books of Wonder brought out the edition of "Wizard" with sharp, clear repro of the illos (and after finding an early edition of "Father Goose"), I realized that the Bobbs-Merrill editions never did very well by Denslow's illos. I didn't care much for Kramer's or Dirk's drawings, but liked Dick Martin's work a lot. Among the post-R&L illustrators, no doubt Eric Shanower is outstanding. Other illustrators it would have been interesting to see illustrating Oz books -- well I suspect both Maxfield Parrish ("Mother Goose in Prose") and Frederick Richardson ("Queen Zixi") would have been too "heavy," and Fanny Cory ("Yew") and Frank Verbeck ("Mo") would have been too "light," but it would have been interesting to see what they might have done with Oz. Ike Morgan and Walt McDougall have a sort of quaint charm in their not-exactly-Oz-book illos, but it's probably just as well they didn't get any actual Oz books to do. (Although the illos McDougall did for his own children's stories are more varied, and seem to me more likeable than his "Visitors.") Arthur Henderson, who was Thompson's favorite among her illustrators on the Philadelphia "Public Ledger" might have made a good Oz illustrator. And H.R. Millar, E. Nesbit's illustrator, might also have been good -- although drawing clothes for American children rather than British might have stumped him. (I reprinted some of McDougall's illos, and accompanying story, in the "mermaids" Dunkiton Press pamphlet I did, and some of Henderson's "Perhappsy Chaps" illos in a Thompson DPpamphlet.) Steve Teller: Enjoyed your review in the Autumn "Bugle" of the revival of the 1902 "Wizard" play. I wonder if other groups in the US will give it a try. Peter Hanff: Enjoyed your article in the Autumn "Bugle" about the Baum-clipping scrapbooks, too. Ruth Berman ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 22:23:47 +0000 (GMT) From: David Hulan Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-13-98 J.L.: Even if there's not as much tin in Oz as there is gold and silver it doesn't mean that tin is particularly rare. It could hardly be when the Tin Woodman has an entire castle built of it. (I assume probably alloyed with something else; pure tin is soft and I doubt if it would work as a structural material.) > 71: Ojo says, "Only wicked people steal." Sanctimonious words from the >Emerald City's only ex-con! But Ojo's crime wasn't stealing, and it was generally acknowledged that while he'd committed a crime he wasn't wicked to do so, just badly informed. I'd guess that the occasion when Hank lost his bray took place on the ship. The _Tik-Tok_ adventure seems too short for it to have included such an occasion; we're with Hank and Betsy through almost all of it. > 304: Does anyone recall if "the pretty lake which was but a short >distance from Ozma's home" was mentioned in the series before this? It >appears on the TIK-TOK (and LOST PRINCESS) maps, but those maps might have >prompted this mention in Baum's text, rather than the other way around. I don't remember the lake being mentioned earlier, but I haven't gone back through the earlier books looking for a mention of it, either. It didn't play a significant role in any of the FF but _Lucky Bucky_. Dave: >Here's a couple of questions for the group: Who is your favorite >Oz illustrator? and Who would you have liked to have seen illustrate an >Oz book who never did? My favorite Oz illustrator is Neill, with Shanower a close second. I'd group Denslow, Martin, Abbott, Grandy, and O'Connor fairly closely in a second tier. Ken Cope hasn't, to my knowledge, illustrated an Oz book, but his illustrations for _Oziana_ put him well up on the list as well - probably between Shanower and the "second tier." As for other illustrators whom I'd have liked to see illustrate Oz, Ernest Shepard comes to mind among past illustrators, and Trina Schart Hyman among present ones, though those are by no means an exhaustive list. >I like the idea of discussing relevant non-Canonial books with the current >BCF...How do others feel? Sure, why not? Though the majority of the ones I can think of (that have relevant connections to canonical books) mesh better with books we've already discussed - _Queen Ann_ with _Tik-Tok_, _Masquerade_ with _Patchwork Girl_, the Abbotts with _Wizard_, etc. _Glass Cat_ would probably have fit best with _Patchwork Girl_, but it also would fit nicely with _Magic_, so from a selfish standpoint I could get something out of it (of a positive nature, I hope...). David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 19:27:09 -0400 (EDT) From: LuVCHACHI@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-14-98 In a message dated 9/14/98 1:41:21 PM Eastern Daylight Time, DaveH47@delphi.com writes: << from zenentertainment one of the many zines i get that keeps me informed >> if you have a link or if you get more info let me know please! Thank you! ~Meghan ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 19:28:42 -0400 (EDT) From: LuVCHACHI@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-14-98 In a message dated 9/14/98 1:41:21 PM Eastern Daylight Time, DaveH47@delphi.com writes: << No place like Holmes? To be honest, I broke almost into hysterics at Dean Dickensheet's representation of Sherlock in Oz >> what is this? I never heard of it before ~Meghan ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 19:30:48 -0400 (EDT) From: LuVCHACHI@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-14-98 In a message dated 9/14/98 1:41:21 PM Eastern Daylight Time, DaveH47@delphi.com writes: << Here's a couple of questions for the group: Who is your favorite Oz illustrator? and Who would you have liked to have seen illustrate an Oz book who never did? >> hmm...i think it's a tir between Niell and WW Denslow. i'm not sure who I wish didn't illistrate them though...i'll need to check that out ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 23:06:50 -0400 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz Sender: Tyler Jones Atticus: I believe Baum's original intent was to present Oz as a sparsely populated rural farmland. That changed slowly over time, especially with RPT and her many, many kingdoms. I think that this thread started with a distinction between IE's that are part of the plot versus IE's that are merely padding. RPT had a few IE's that were part of the plot or advanced it, such as Pokes in _Roayl Book_ that produced Sir Hokus. There's probably more, though. I just can't bring them to mind. Her book do have plot, though, with some exceptions. Jeremy: Billina, Jim the Cab-Horse, Eureka, the nine tiny piglets, Percy and Pinny and Gig spoke pretty quickly during their debuts, and that was even before Oz. Toto did not speak for several years, but that is only because he did not feel the need to do so. Hank spoke at the end of his book, but soon after he entered Oz. It does seem that animals acquire the ability fairly quickly. I think somebody suggested that Kabina is Kabumpo's sister. John Bell: I don't have the BOW edition of _Lost Princess_ yet, but it should be on the way. That's right. Enough with all this automation. I had to walk to the Emerald City back then. Uphill both ways. And then, to pay the toll, I had to sell matches in the snow on Christmas Eve. :-) Dave: It is indeed a problem in discussing books that are so hard to get, such as the non-FF Oz books. One possibility is to simply incorporate them informally in discussions of the BCF. Tyler ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 21:43:17 +0200 From: ltharris Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-14-98 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Hi. I've been lurking for a while, but read all the digests regularly. I like the idea of linking non-canonicals with the FF, but need advance notice (it takes me longer to get the books). I'd like to take this opportunity to wish everyone a great year (next week is Rosh Hashana- the Jewish New year). Tzvi Harris Talmon, Israel ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 11:47:30 -0400 From: "J. L. Bell" Subject: irrelevant Oz Sender: "J. L. Bell" Nice scenario, Joyce Odell, for how Dorothy's search party could have retrieved the Wizard's black bag and turned the tables on Ugu without the Magic Belt. I imagine the Frogman kicking Scraps upwards with his strong legs. That idea need simply come from one of the girls (i.e., a child solves the problem), and all our objections to LOST PRINCESS's ending would again be answered. Thanks, Gordon Birrell, for the report that Unzip 2.0.1 unzips Tyler Jones's Digest digests. (I was borrowing trouble before, not having tried to decompress because I'd visited Tyler's archive on someone else's terminal.) David Hulan wrote: <> I don't view DOROTHY & WIZARD as composed of IEs because Dorothy's goal--to reach safety--is at the core of her adventures among the Mangaboos, in the Valley of Vo, and with the Gargoyles. Those Es aren't linked to each other, as in this book's two predecessors, but they're all very R to the simple but time-honored plot. The Braided Man, the trial, and the horse race are, I agree, quite I; they don't affect the goal laid out in the book's (or storyline's) first chapter. Sometimes Baum used almost as much padding as Dame Margolotte! Scott Hutchins wrote: <> In that case, what does it do to Ozma, who has a big chunk of radium (the Magic Picture's frame) in her personal suite, and to her friends? And what caused the oddities of all the other odd peoples of Oz? I perceive Oz's radium to be the substance that people in 1910 considered real radium to be: an intriguing, ultra-modern, glowing mineral but not a carcinogen. Jeremy Steadman wrote: <> It does, as Toto showed us. But the length of that time seems to depend entirely on the animal's interest in speaking. The last chapter of TIK-TOK tells us when Hank started talking--shortly after he arrived in Oz, under peer pressure from the Sawhorse. That gives us the near limit of the period when Hank reportedly lost his bray. I can't think of a non-enchanted animal who tried to speak in fairyland, but wasn't immediately able to. Indeed, the examples of Billina and Eureka and Jim imply Hank could have talked as soon as he and Betsy were within sight of the Ev coast, but didn't. Jeremy Steadman wrote: <> Sister. On that non-canonical note, here's one way we could introduce relevant out-of-series books into the BCF discussions. First, Dave proposes when discussion of a canonical Oz book will start. Then anyone who knows of published non-canonical work relating to that book can call out titles--it might be good also to mention if such work is unusually good [don't miss it!] or disappointing [don't blame me if you feel ripped off]. That would give folks who are interested enough time to do the extra reading, though the non-canonical discussion would remain a sideshow to the BCF. That proposal doesn't address the real minefield of discussing contemporary Oz stories, however. The authors may well be part of these discussions, or lurking, or future members of the forum. Our judgments can be harsh. Even when critics tread gently, authors can be sensitive. J. L. Bell JnoLBell@compuserve.com ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 10:51:10 -0600 (CST) From: Ruth Berman Subject: ozzy digest J.L. Bell: Interesting comments on the art. You're probably right that the picture of "Em" mending the Patchwork Girl is actually a view of Dame Margolotte -- although it doesn't actually look much like Margolotte in the one view of her in "Patchwork Girl." Perhaps he had done it earlier for "PG" and discarded it because he changed his mind about Margolotte's looks. Interesting points also on the oval Emerald City on the map, and why Shaggy considers his brother handsome. On Button Bright as drawn in American clothes, even though the text describes him in Ojo-style but non-blue clothes -- Neill very likely didn't wanted to follow the description, as it would make differentiating the two characters in the illos difficult. One of the color plates you'll be seeing when your BoW arrives is a handsome portrait of the two boys. Another strikingly attractive color plate is the frontispiece, of Ozma with a meditative expression, standing on the palace grounds, with a tiny Soldier on guard far behind her. (I wonder if it would be possible to write a story about the Soldier's view of the "LP" events, about how he felt when he got back from his fishing vacation and found out what a threat had occurred in his absence, and how he thought he might have prevented it all Had He But Been There.) I like Baum's idea of a wickerwork castle, and like the way Neill picked up on it in the illos to make the texture of all that wicker stuff (even a wicker bottle) an important part of the design. Anyone have an idea what the object is (in the illo of Ugu in his castle on p. 215) with the dimensions of 4'3"x7'0" and why Neill would choose that size? Robin Olderman: Hmm, yes, a Kay Nielsen Oz view might have been quite attractive. James Doyle: I suppose if the Soldier with the Green Whiskers at the palace gate is part of the Army of Oz and originally a private, it makes sense that the Guardian of the Gate at the city wall would be one of the other privates (the text mentions that there are three, although only the one appears in "Ozma"). I wonder where the third is stationed, and if he (or she?) also dates from the Wizard's reign. Ruth Berman ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 16:34:24 -0400 (EDT) From: MCKWD@aol.com Subject: Re: Oz Observer Have been away and was delighted to find your favorable response to the suggestion that you write a Meet A Member article about yourself. Something like the following is what I'm looking for: How became interested, Collections, Publications, Specialized interests, Activity within IWOC, Reflections upon why the appeal, and/or Friendships--anything really that applies to you and that other members would find interesting. However, please keep it between 1000 and 1200 words. Also, please send a photo or two to include with the article. Many, many thanks! Carole ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 20:47:17 +0000 (GMT) From: David Hulan Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-14-98 Scott H.: >J.L.: Radium's radioactivity was what I suspect supposedly the cause of >the Horners odd hair and horns, like the fanciful mutations of SF. I doubt that Baum knew anything about the ability of radiation to cause mutations - and in fact it rarely does cause viable mutations; radiation usually kills cells that it hits rather than altering them. Mutations are usually caused by chemicals, SF stories to the contrary notwithstanding. Atticus: >While there are certainly flaws in Baum's other books, in my opinion LP >contains one of the most drastic inconsistencies ("Duh, how does this Belt >thingy work?") and some of the most dramatic deviations from character >(pointed out by Bob Spark and others) in the First Fourteen. We'll just have to agree to disagree about this. Consistency was never Baum's strong point; what's more or less drastic is, I think, a matter of personal judgment. Jeremy: >Ted for Edward?? >It's strange enough that you can get Betty from Elizabeth and Jack >from James--Edward to Ted to Theodore seems stretching it...But then >again, I frequently have been accused of being narrow-minded. (No >joke.) Actually, Jack is usually a nickname for John, not James. But there are a lot of nicknames that are less obviously related to the name they're nicknames for than Betty from Elizabeth, which is easily arrived at by taking the last syllable of the name, changing the final fricative to a stop, and adding a diminutive. Getting Peggy from Margaret, or Polly from Mary, or Nell from Helen, are rather more improbable. On the male side, how about Dick from Richard? >Do we know for certain that animals begin to speak IMMEDIATELY upon >getting to Oz? I mean, might it take some longer to adjust to speech >than others? It seems as if animals acquire the ability to speak immediately on reaching Oz, but some of them don't use the ability immediately. It's hard to say for sure, though, because there aren't that many cases of non-speaking animals arriving directly in Oz without passing through some other magical land where they acquire speech before they get to Oz. Offhand, Toto and Hank are the only two I can think of in Baum. We know Billina, Eureka, Jim, the Nine Tiny Piglets, and Bilbil all could speak before they reached Oz. In the post-Baum books I don't recall any animals from our world reaching Oz except for Percy, Pinny, and Gig in _Hidden Valley_, and they could speak as soon as they got to Oz. (I don't count Bill the weathercock or Merry-Go-Round, since they were inanimate until they got to Oz.) J.L.: >How's this for irony? After urging since March that the Books of Wonder >color-plate edition of LOST PRINCESS would help our discussion, I still >don't have a copy. [Does anyone?] I got mine today, after seeing a copy earlier in the day at a Borders. The plates vary in quality (I mean in the originals; the BoW edition reproduces them very well as far as I can tell). Neill seems to have been fascinated with the Frogman, and drew more plates of him than I think his role justifies, but that's a value judgment. The frontispiece is one of the better early (back before she got to be Slinky) color renditions of Ozma, imho. And I like the rendition of Button-Bright in the peach tree, though Neill shows a second peach even though Baum says there was only one on the whole tree. (I didn't notice this on my own; I'd read about it in the Bugle or on the Digest or both. But this is the first time I'd seen the plate.) > 25: This picture of Scraps having her eyes sewn on could well be taken as >a picture of Aunt Em. But the seamstress doesn't look like any other >drawing of Em. And why would she choose a dim, book-stuffed garret to do >her mending? I therefore view this drawing as a picture of Margolotte >creating the Patchwork Girl in the first place, back in the cottage she >shared with that owner of magic books, Dr. Pipt. I think you're right. Scraps's posture doesn't seem to me to be one she'd have if she were animate at the time of that picture. I don't think that's a "dim" garret, though; it looks to me as if there's a large window right behind the seamstress throwing a lot of light on Scraps's face. Probably a room with strong north light, which would be good for fine sewing. >The capital was therefore drawn as an oval, though >it looks circular when the map is bound into a book (and on the >accompanying Oz-and-surroundings map). Whoever drew the map for LOST >PRINCESS must have traced an unbound copy of that TIK-TOK map, however, >because here the Emerald City comes out oval. I don't think the idea was for the Emerald City to come out circular when bound into a book on the endpapers. That elongated shape is the standard cut for emeralds (it's called the "emerald cut," when used for other jewels), and would be natural for the Emerald City. > 101: On page 70 Baum says Button-Bright has started to dress like Ojo, >though in "different [unspecified] colors." Neill continues to dress him >like an upper-class boy from America. I suspect Button-Bright would simply >put on whatever clothes he found in his closet when he thought of changing. >I always liked how Ozma had her tailors provide the Shaggy Man with shaggy >clothes, so it makes sense to me that those same tailors would continue to >make Button-Bright the sort of outfits he's used to. Button-Bright's costumes in the color plates look very much like the ones he wore in _Sky Island_ and _Scarecrow_; Neill evidently didn't read Baum's line about his dressing like Ojo. The color plate opposite page 70 in the BoW edition shows Ojo and Button-Bright side by side, and other than the fact that they're both wearing knee-breeches their costumes are totally different. Ojo has a tall pointed hat with bells and a feather; Button-Bright has a wide-brimmed hat with a low crown and a ribbon. Ojo has a ruff; Button-Bright has an Eton collar (I think that's what they call it) and a neckcloth. Ojo's pants are cut very wide at the thighs and hips, rather like jodhpurs; Button-Bright's are much more fitted. Ojo's coat is a cutaway with tails and no belt; Button-Bright's is cut square across at hip level and is belted. Ojo has ribbons with bows below his knees and on his shoes, which appear to be pumps; Button-Bright has no ribbons, his pants stop above his knees, and his shoes are laced. >This bothered me, too. When I was a boy, we didn't have any of this >words-in-red, automatic-searching claptrap! If you wanted to learn >something from the Great Book of Records, you had to read it all the way >through! > In a blizzard! > Barefoot! Don't forget uphill both ways! Robin: What did/does Kay Nielsen illustrate? The name is familiar, but I don't place her style. Bob Spark: The ECP non-canonical books are all still available from Books of Wonder, so acquiring them should be no great problem. A lot of the Buckethead books aren't in print any longer, but I can't think of many of them that tie in that closely with canonical books - though my Buckethead collection isn't all that extensive. (I have 12-15 of them, but there are a lot more that I don't have.) And most of the other non-canonical books are completely out of print. James: >In re: Name of the Guardian of the Gate- he's Private Gruph in the pre- >Broadway programs for the Baum/ Tietjens musical, and even had a basso buffo >song (cut very early in Chicago), which includes one of the most brilliant >lyrical lines ever written... > >Gruph: "The gate, the gate, the gate, the gate!" > >Ah- they just don't write 'em like that anymore... Like Ira Gershwin's classic "Da-da-da-da moon, Da-da-da-da love, Da-da-da-da June, Da-da-da above." Dave: Actually, while _Glass Cat_ probably ties in best with _Patchwork Girl_ or _Tik-Tok_, it also ties in reasonably well with _Magic_, since Bungle, Trot, and Cap'n Bill are all major characters in both. In addition to _Magic Dishpan_, incidentally, ECP's most recent book, _The Lavender Bear of Oz_, also ties in quite well with _Lost Princess_. It is, unfortunately, a pretty weak book. Campbell and Terry weren't nearly as clever in this one as they were in _Masquerade_, imho. David Hulan ====================================================================== -- Dave **************************************************************************** Dave Hardenbrook, DaveH47@delphi.com, http://people.delphi.com/DaveH47/ "I like to define humor as the affectionate communication of insight." -- Leo Rosten, introduction to _Oh K*A*P*L*A*N, My K*A*P*L*A*N_ ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, SEPTEMBER 18 - 20, 1998 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 06:53:05 -0700 From: Bob Spark Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-17-98 > Bob Spark: The ECP non-canonical books are all still > available from Books of Wonder, so acquiring them should be > no great problem. A lot of the Buckethead books aren't in > print any longer, but I can't think of many of them that > tie in that closely with canonical books - though my > Buckethead collection isn't all that extensive. (I have > 12-15 of them, but there are a lot more that I don't have.) > And most of the other non-canonical books are completely > out of print. and > I don't see how there's much to consider, really. All > there is to do is to be horribly exclusionary. Those who > have read the related books can bring up points or examples > which may be alternately ignored or not, as with anything > else on the Digest. I doubt anyone will be able to sit > down and type up an e-text version of these things. My point wasn't that the books are unavailable, merely that there will be time considerations involved if they have to be procured before they are discussed. Certainly if the reference is just a passing one this is not a terrible problem but if the discussion proceeds the lack of the books will stifle those of us who are not in possession of them. I am just suggesting that a little judgement be used. Probably it would have been without all this discussion. Bob Spark ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 10:42:56 -0400 (EDT) From: Mark Anthony Donajkowski Subject: ANSWER TO OZ NEWS QUESTIONS here is the sub info for zen if you write the guy maybe he knows more now <<- - - - - - - - - - - DISCLAIMER - - - - - - - - - - - ->> ZENtertainment #248 NEXT: #249 (9.21.98) -> To Unsubscribe, reply to this e-mail and say UNSUBSCRIBE. -> To sign a friend up or begin receiving ZEN yourself, e-mail SeanJordan@aol.com and say SUBSCRIBE. -> Mail press releases, review material, letters, etc, to: PO Box 220756 Santa Clarita, CA 91322-0756 ALL CONTENTS COPYRIGHT 1998 ZENTERTAINMENT. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. ZENtertainment IS A TRADEMARK OF SEAN JORDAN. CONTENTS MAY NOT BE REPRINTED WITHOUT PERMISSION. ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 09:54:26 -0500 From: "R. M. Atticus Gannaway" Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-17-98 DAVID HULAN: I agree with you on the relative overabundance of frog in the _Lost Princess_ color plates. The Frogman appears prominently in 4 of the 12 and less prominently in a fifth. Of course, since Neill apparently didn't pick which of his pictures would be plates, we can't chalk that phenomenon up to his credit. JOHN BELL, RE: NON-CANONICALS RELEVANT TO DISCUSSION > That proposal doesn't address the real minefield of discussing >contemporary Oz stories, however. The authors may well be part of these >discussions, or lurking, or future members of the forum. Our judgments can >be harsh. Even when critics tread gently, authors can be sensitive. Now that I think about it, two of my _own_ books were BCF-related. _A Wonderful Journey in Oz_ dealt considerably with elements of _Sky Island_, and _Time-Traveling in Oz_ actually has close ties to _Lost Princess_. Funny how I just now thought of that. Or perhaps it was a subconscious means of protecting myself from criticism? ;) Actually, both of those books have undergone some painfully honest assessments (understandably so, since I wrote them when I was 11 and 12, respectively), but I really think I'm sufficiently mature at this point to swallow my medicine. After all, that is what a Writer does. My most recent manuscript has ties to _Handy Mandy_, so hopefully the book will be out in some form or fashion by the time we reach that point in the series. Atticus * * * "...[T]here is something else: the faith of those despised and endangered that they are not merely the sum of damages done to them." Visit my webpage at http://members.aol.com/atty993 ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 09:51:34 -0600 (CST) From: Ruth Berman Subject: ozzy digest Meghan L.: You asked what story Jeremy Steadman described as a hysterically funny Sherlock Holmes in Oz. He was reacting to my description (Oz Digest Sept. 12-13) of Dean Dickensheet's short Holmes-in-Oz story, originally printed in one of Bruce Pelz's fanzines, and reprinted by me in a collection I did of Holmesiana from sf fanzines. Joyce Odell & J.L. Bell (rhymes?): In terms of how frogs move, I think it would have been difficult for the Frogman to throw Scraps up to the cage, or to see to aim accurately enough if he'd kicked. Maybe if he'd jumped with Scraps on his back, she could have reached up and caught hold. Although if the chandelier was getting in the way when the Frogman tried jumping just on his own, it might have been equally in the way of Scraps, however she was sent ceilingwards? The chandelier design suggests that it would be hard to grab hold of/climb up? David Hulan: Kay Rasmus Nielsen (in Denmark, Kay is a male name, like Kay in Andersen's "Snow Queen") lived 1886-1957. He's probably best known for his illos of Andersen's "Fairy Tales" (1924) and the 1922 edition of Ashbjornsen's collection of Danish fairytales, "East of the Sun and West of the Moon." // Suggestion that the Tin Woodman's tin castle is probably alloyed with something else -- well, as one of his favorite songs has it, "There's No Plate Like Tin." He's probably tin- plated himself (with the later zinc-plating on top of that), considering the episode in "Queer Visitors" where he becomes a magnet? Ruth Berman ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 15:44:44 +0000 (GMT) From: David Hulan Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-17-98 Atticus: >I doubt anyone will be able to sit down and >type up an e-text version of these things. And if they did they'd be violating copyright. (I'm not sure of the contractual status of Buckethead books; I assume that in the case of out-of-print titles the author could post the e-text of his book, but I'm not even sure of that. And nobody but the author could even do that. I don't think any non-canonical book has gone PD yet, unless you count _Queer Visitors_ and _Little Wizard Stories_.) Jeremy: >And yes, I agree, Baum used IE's to "pad" >the story too. BUT, and here is the important thing, RPT used them >to excess, without real reason, while LFB used them in moderation. Depends on the book. I agree that in her early books Thompson piled IE upon IE with very little justification, and most of them didn't advance the plot. But in the later books she toned that down quite a lot; I don't think there are any more IEs in _Speedy_, _Wishing Horse_, _Handy Mandy_, or _Silver Princess_ than there are in the better Baum books, and fewer than in many of his. Ruth: >J.L. Bell & David Hulan: I've been poking about in microfilms of old >newspaper, and was amused to find a top-of-the-front-page story in a >July 1905 Chicago "Tribune" about a local scientist who claimed to >have carried out an experiment in which he sterilized some petri >dishes and then exposed them to radium, and found after while that >bacteria were growing there, created by the lifegiving radium. The >sub-heading suggested that perhaps radium was a "Germ of Health." >Probably Baum would have read this article. Apparently that "scientist" didn't do a very good job of sterilizing those petri dishes. Meghan: Dean Dickinsheet's Oz-Holmes short-short was mentioned by Ruth Berman in a Digest a few days ago. I think that's all any of the rest of us know about it. (I'm likelier to have seen it than anyone else on the Digest, probably; at least I've met Dean Dickinsheet, and received many of Bruce Pelz's fanzines. But I don't recall seeing that story.) J.L.: I consider _DotWiz_ to be nothing but IEs because Dorothy could have made her signal to Ozma at 4:00 the first day she was in the Mangaboo Country and avoided all the other adventures. Of course, then there wouldn't have been any book at all, but the fact remains that the only reason she had those adventures was that she was uncharacteristically stupid. If the party had gotten out of the underworld and into Oz on their own then I agree that the various episodes (except the Braided Man) would have been R. > I can't think of a non-enchanted animal who tried to speak in fairyland, >but wasn't immediately able to. Except in Samandra... >Indeed, the examples of Billina and Eureka >and Jim imply Hank could have talked as soon as he and Betsy were within >sight of the Ev coast, but didn't. Not necessarily; if so, why would the Wizard be surprised that Bilbil could speak? We discussed this some time ago, and I think the consensus was that in Ev and the other countries surrounding Oz birds could speak, but mammals couldn't unless they'd been to Oz first. There's plenty of evidence that birds can speak in Ev; Hank and Bilbil are evidence that mammals can't. There are clearly some places outside Oz where mammals can speak - Foxville, Dunkiton, Patrippany Island, Mo - but apparently not Ev, Pingaree, Rinkitink, the Nome King's dominions, or Noland. Or at least, if they can they normally don't. > That proposal doesn't address the real minefield of discussing >contemporary Oz stories, however. The authors may well be part of these >discussions, or lurking, or future members of the forum. Our judgments can >be harsh. Even when critics tread gently, authors can be sensitive. Good point. Best way might be to avoid saying anything about a book other than mentioning its title and its relevance, and give the author a chance to say "I'd rather you didn't discuss it" if he/she reads the Digest. I'm game for anything anyone wants to say about _Glass Cat_, but that's my attitude. I don't think we can really take the possibility of an author joining the Digest at a later date into consideration; few people go back and read old archives. Ruth: >Anyone have an idea what the object is >(in the illo of Ugu in his castle on p. 215) with the dimensions of >4'3"x7'0" and why Neill would choose that size? It's an angle-measuring device of some sort - looks as if it might be a magical clamp for holding two boards or other structural pieces at a set angle to each other prior to fastening them together. The big and little hands are pointing at present, since they're empty, but I'd suppose they'd open up and grab the items when needed. I have no idea why Neill would choose those dimensions (the arc clearly has degrees marked on it, though some of them aren't particularly legible); maybe they're the maximum size object (a sheet of plywood? Those are usually 4'x8' now, but in 1917 - or in Oz - it might be different) that the hands can hold? I'd think that if the Guardian of the Gate were a private in the Army of Oz, he'd wear a uniform like the Soldier with the Green Whiskers'. He doesn't seem to, so I doubt if he's in the Army. Also, _Ozoplaning_ says he's been on duty since the Wizard's time, but it's frequently said that the Soldier is the entire Army of Oz from _Patchwork Girl_ on. Dave: I think Carole Mackey's post wasn't intended for the Digest... The perils of automation (which is why when I have a private message for you I avoid putting "Oz" in the Subject line). David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 12:14:33 -0400 (EDT) From: Hollyjmjss@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-14-98 Dear Jeremy, Ted for Edward is no stretch in my family. My 95 year old Grandmother calls my father, Teddy, who birth named him Edward. Tim PS I think you mean Jack for John, not Jack for James. ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 13:12:22 -0400 From: Michael Turniansky Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-17-98 > Scott H.: > >J.L.: Radium's radioactivity was what I suspect supposedly the cause of > >the Horners odd hair and horns, like the fanciful mutations of SF. > > I doubt that Baum knew anything about the ability of radiation to cause > mutations - and in fact it rarely does cause viable mutations; radiation > usually kills cells that it hits rather than altering them. Mutations are > usually caused by chemicals, SF stories to the contrary notwithstanding. > Really? But I recall back in the drak ages, when I took high school biology, those films about the mutation of drosophila melanogaster (i.e fruitfly) said they were caused by exposure to X-rays in the lab.Jeremy: > >Ted for Edward?? > >It's strange enough that you can get Betty from Elizabeth and Jack > >from James--Edward to Ted to Theodore seems stretching it...But then > >again, I frequently have been accused of being narrow-minded. (No > >joke.) > > Actually, Jack is usually a nickname for John, not James. But there are a > lot of nicknames that are less obviously related to the name they're > nicknames for than Betty from Elizabeth, which is easily arrived at by > taking the last syllable of the name, changing the final fricative to a > stop, and adding a diminutive. Getting Peggy from Margaret, or Polly from > Mary, or Nell from Helen, are rather more improbable. On the male side, how > about Dick from Richard? > Don't forget the supporters of James (VI)? of Scotland (later James I (II?) of England) were called "Jacobites". --Mike "Shaggy Man" Turniansky ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 19:36:10 -0400 (EDT) From: Ozisus@aol.com Subject: Oz production news Got a return call from our Hallmark Entertainment division about the Land of Oz production. It will be live action executive produced by Robert Halmi Sr. It is not yet cast or in production. It is clearly not a film version of Baum's The Marvelous Land of Oz as the description states: Dorothy returns to Oz and helps battle an invasion of nomes. (I had it read to me, so I've no idea if they are spelling nome, knome, gnome...) It is further described as being "inspired by the L. Frank Baum books" -- note plural. So I suspect we are looking at a plot closer to The Emerald City than Baum's Land. I'll continue to keep you posted. Jane ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 16:54:52 -0500 From: Sean Nicewaner Subject: [This message is from a non-subscriber.] Hi would anyone be interested in a collection of turner 50th anniversary dolls. THey are 12" tall 11 in all. ANyone interested please e-mail me at lisawerst@yahoo.com also for sale a mego emerald city playset ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 20:40:00 -0400 From: Richard Bauman Subject: TODAY'S OZ GROWLS Sender: Richard Bauman David - My Lost Princess arrived today. Maybe the warehouse is on the Left Coast. :) David >Robin: What did/does Kay Nielsen illustrate? The name is familiar, but I don't place her style. I'm not Robin but I can tell you Kay is a he not a she. He was born in Denmark, studied in Paris and launched his career in 1912. Among others he illustrated "East of the Sun and West of the Moon." In 1926 he moved to the U.S. where he became a muralist and motion-picture set desiger in Hollywood. He also illustrated the fairy tales of Han Christian Anderson and the brothers Grimm. His paintings and drawings are filled with detail. He died in 1957. If you had any originals you would be very happy. Regards, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 22:39:36 -0400 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz Sender: Tyler Jones Non-Canon BCF: Atticus' suggestion is actually the best one possible. People who have read them will post and discuss, and that's all. People who have not read them will, of course, not be able to post anything, but they may gain insight into them. After all, isn't this what we're already doing? I mean, not everybody on the Digest has read the entire FF, so the same situation will apply. --Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 22:49:41 -0400 From: "J. L. Bell" Subject: LOST PRINCESS OF OZ color plates Sender: "J. L. Bell" Thanks, Dave Hardenbrook, for your heartfelt apology and renewed ground rules on avoiding irrelevant political commentary. I look to you as our model on forum decorum. When a few weeks back a casual comment from you plunged the group into discussing whether we thought a certain Congressman was evil, I feared that the boundaries had dissolved and that the group (or a significant part of it) no longer wished to eschew discussing contemporary politics. I'm pleased that you've chosen to reverse that course. Thanks, Ruth Berman, for the 1905 report of radium as a "Germ of Health." That was just four years before Baum introduced the element into Oz. About Ojo's comment on theft in LOST PRINCESS, Dave Hulan wrote: <> Ojo inadvertently stumbled onto a classic moral question: Is it okay for parents to steal bread to feed their children? For him to answer no, "Only wicked people steal," shows little ethical sophistication. Especially when he'd previously taken something that he'd been warned he wasn't allowed to take (akin to stealing) and justified it as a matter of life and death--that shows even less [shall we say?] perspective. This afternoon I saw the Books of Wonder LOST PRINCESS in a store for the first time. When I arrived home in the evening, I found my own copy. As with other Baum books, this is the first time I'd seen most of the color plates. The back of the "white cover" edition I grew up with has a Dick Martin drawing of two This. This was one of the first illustrations I realized had to be Martin's, even before I learned the extent of his work on R&L covers, frontmatter, etc. The rendering of eyes, fingers, and shoes is different from Neill's. Now I see that drawing is tenuously connected to a Neill plate, the one opposite p. 126. Martin redrew the two right-hand figures in a more cartoony--and, frankly, less disturbing--way. The resulting tone is more akin to the line art on p. 133, of the pleasant High Coco-Lorum. Ruth Berman mentioned: <> I imagine Omby Amby wiping his high forehead, secretly relieved that He Hadn't Been There! As to the identity of Ozma's third private, my first guess is Tollydiggle. She's the only other Emerald City functionary we meet. Perhaps all the capital's public servants are really privates. Dave Hulan wrote: <> The Frogman does get an unusual amount of face time. There are no fewer than two plates of his encounter with Corporal Waddles, for instance. The second one (opposite p. 212) makes me think OZ: THE EWOK ADVENTURE. Ruth Berman asked: <> It looks like a pair of calipers. There are also degree measurements on the curved part, reading approximately 50 degrees. Hey, is there a link between Ugu's wicker castle and his wickedness? Thanks to both Ruth Berman and Dave Hulan for your learned responses on how Lake Quad hadn't featured in Baum's books before LOST PRINCESS. This is another example, I think, of how Baum incorporated a feature casually drawn on the TIK-TOK maps into his subsequent stories. About those maps Dave wrote: <>. The "emerald cut" reasoning is strong, but the two indications that the mapmaker planned for the Emerald City to come out as circular in the endpaper map of Oz are: 1) The capital is circular on the accompanying map of the continent. 2) The placement of labels and other features on the Oz map so that they wouldn't be hidden in the endpaper's fold implies the mapmaker foresaw that problem and worked around it. As for artists we'd like to have illustrated Oz stories, Baum at one point urged Reilly & Britton to hire Winsor McKay in place of Neill. McKay's draftsmanship and play with the bounds of a comic-page are awesome! (I know Danny Wall's a fan of him, too.) Hiring McKay would have meant losing Neill's later work, however, and for no good reason. Baum made his suggestion in the period when he was lamenting his falling book sales and looking for someone to blame besides the fellow who'd decided to lay off writing Oz stories. H. R. Millar's artwork for Edith Nesbit's books is terrific, and just right for her stories. (Books of Wonder has reprinted some Nesbit/Millar books, though it's commissioned new art for other Nesbit titles.) I'm not sure Millar would be right for Oz, though. The beauty of Nesbit is how fantastic things happen to children in this world, or a world somehow wrapped within this world. There's no continually developed Otherworld like Oz. Also, Baum invented more wonderful grotesques than Nesbit, and portraying grotesques wasn't Millar's strength. He was better at matter-of-fact drawings of ordinary kids out for a walk, and oh by the way a troop of medieval knights is bearing down on them... Ruth Berman wrote: <> Never heard of him! Seriously, I'm not sure what essay this might be. Maybe being able to report I'd won something was a perk of writing the convention report. I did win a Munchkin fiction prize back in my wayward youth, for a Captain Salt saga told from Tandy's point of view and in the mode of MOBY DICK. ("Call me Tazander. . . .") I reread it earlier this year, and decided it was a good indication why the term "juvenilia" was invented. J. L. Bell JnoLBell@compuserve.com ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 18:05:10 +0200 From: Bill Wright Subject: Oz Digest Question Cc: "'Ozmama@aol.com'" Received the following question from the I'net. Anyone on the digest have an answer? How did L. Frank Baum get the idea for the characters Tin Man , Flying Monkeys, and the Wicked Witch of the West? And of course this raises the general question of what was his inspiration for each of the major characters? Bill in Ozlo ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 15:53:23 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-17-98 > Scott Hutchins wrote: > < Horners odd hair and horns, like the fanciful mutations of SF.>> > > In that case, what does it do to Ozma, who has a big chunk of radium (the > Magic Picture's frame) in her personal suite, and to her friends? And what As long as she didn't lick it, she'd be all right. :) Of course, the Horners use it for their flatware, which could be a problem. > caused the oddities of all the other odd peoples of Oz? I perceive Oz's > radium to be the substance that people in 1910 considered real radium to > be: an intriguing, ultra-modern, glowing mineral but not a carcinogen. > > Scott H.: > >J.L.: Radium's radioactivity was what I suspect supposedly the cause of > >the Horners odd hair and horns, like the fanciful mutations of SF. > > I doubt that Baum knew anything about the ability of radiation to cause > mutations - and in fact it rarely does cause viable mutations; radiation > usually kills cells that it hits rather than altering them. Mutations are > usually caused by chemicals, SF stories to the contrary notwithstanding. Again, my point was to suggest it might be similar to something in SF, but that's been proven historically inaccurate, as you suggest. > > Jeremy: > >Ted for Edward?? Kennedy I have a script (not yet complete) with a few Oz ties at http://php.iupui.edu/~sahutchi/mimpfilm.html. It ought to be furhter updated Monday, since I've added more to my copy on Word. See if you can find them: they're not overt; only Oz fans are likely to catch them, though I think a Kaldiah might show up later along wiht the Jabberwock, though the inhuman characters don't seem to fit as well in the script I have in mind. I don't know what the status of shooting for _Under the Rainbow_ will be now. Carl has been very strict about who can help out behind the scens (not me, or anyone else not already doing it), and Mary-Beth, who is Tino's real life girlfriend, has been sick since last Sunday. The last I heard they weren't sure what it was. I picked up _The Land of Oz_ #1 yesterday, but have yet to find the Arrow Anthologies. I also could not find the song by ELP (one of my favorite bands). Scott ====================================================================== Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 11:54:23 -0400 (EDT) From: Ozmama@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-17-98 FWIW, I'm not at all interested in discussing the non-Canonical Oz pastiches. Too many of them are poorly written, and to choose "only the good ones" would lead to hurt feelings. I hope you do not choose to do this. No problem here if we want to discuss other Oz or Oz-related (Nonestica) tales. There's lots to discuss, for heaven's sake, even if we stick to just the fab forty. IEs: I like most of them and don't give a dip if they do or don't advance the plot, just as long as they seem to fit and don't mess up the flow of the story. RPT's IEs are often terrific! I disagree with "RPT used them to excess, without real reason...." I guess it's because they so fit the lady herself. She was a sprite, an imp, a delightful person who just bubbled over with imagination. While I don't like all of her IEs (think Doorways), I'm fond of quite a few of them. Let's face it: many of the Oz series have weak plots. The IEs can make or break 'em. Ruth: Your "germ of health" article reference reminds me of a late 19th. century article unearthed by Jon Michael Suter (head of Houston Baptist University and longtime IWOC member). It was about a mechanical man who, IIRC, was steam powered. Illustrated, too! Can't help but wonder if that thing got Baum to thinking about a better way to run a robot. David: "I don't think the idea was for the Emerald City to come out circular when bound into a book on the endpapers. That elongated shape is the standard cut for emeralds (it's called the "emerald cut," when used for other jewels), and would be natural for the Emerald City."" I don't think so, David. According to the Home Shopping Club (the ultimate source, no?) the emerald cut is rectangular...longer than it is wide. Kay Nielsen illustrated lotsa stuff. His *Andersen's Fairy Tales* are, perhaps, the most easily accessible since Garden City reprinted them in an inexpensive format somewhere around (I think) the 1930s. He also worked on Disney's *Fantasia.* The "Ave Maria" section is clearly influenced by him. His color work is otherworldly and beautiful. --Robin ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 20 Sep 98 09:36:19 (PDT) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things IDEAS: Bill quoted: >How did L. Frank Baum get the idea for the characters Tin Man , Flying >Monkeys, and the Wicked Witch of the West? Whenever I see a question like this, I can't help thinking of Douglas Adams (author of _Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy_) when an aspiring writer asked him, "I'm having trouble getting ideas for characters...What do you advise?" Adams replied, "Perhaps you're not drinking the right coffee...Have you considered trying an Italian blend?" NON-CANON BCF: Robin wrote: >FWIW, I'm not at all interested in discussing the non-Canonical Oz >pastiches. That's one 'no' vote...Anyone else? (I'm leaning toward going ahead with this, since most people seem to feel OK about it, but I'm still open to suggestions/critcisms...) David wrote: >Good point. Best way might be to avoid saying anything about a book other >than mentioning its title and its relevance, and give the author a chance >to say "I'd rather you didn't discuss it" if he/she reads the Digest. I think this is a good plan. I plan to mention the names of the non-Canoncal books tentatively slated to be discussed well in advance... Tyler wrote: >Atticus' suggestion is actually the best one possible. People who have read >them will post and discuss, and that's all. People who have not read them >will, of course, not be able to post anything, but they may gain insight >into them. After all, isn't this what we're already doing? I mean, not >everybody on the Digest has read the entire FF, so the same situation will >apply. I go along with this...I myself am going to be left out of many Canonical discussions starting with _Grandpa_, but hearing what others have to say about some of these books I haven't read will help me decide which ones to read in future. Here's a list of possible Canon-Non-Canon matchups: 11. The Lost Princess, 1917 -- The Ice King of Oz 12. The Tin Woodman of Oz, 1918 -- The Patchwork Bride of Oz 13. The Magic of Oz, 1919 -- Glass Cat of Oz 14. Glinda of Oz, 1920 -- Red Reera the Y. & the E. E. Eggs of Oz 15. The Royal Book of Oz, 1921 16. Kabumpo in Oz, 1922 17. The Cowardly Lion of Oz, 1923 -- The Secret Island of Oz 18. Grampa in Oz, 1924 19. The Lost King of Oz, 1925 -- Oz and the Three Witches 20. The Hungry Tiger of Oz, 1926 21. The Gnome King of Oz, 1927 -- Nome King's Shadow in Oz 22. The Giant Horse of Oz, 1928 -- Locasta and the Three Adepts of Oz 23. Jack Pumpkinhead of Oz, 1929 -- Masquarade in Oz 24. The Yellow Knight of Oz, 1930 25. Pirates in Oz, 1931 26. The Purple Prince of Oz, 1932 27. Ojo in Oz, 1933 28. Speedy in Oz, 1934 -- Umbrella Island in Oz 29. The Wishing Horse of Oz, 1935 -- The Blue Witch of Oz 30. Captain Salt in Oz, 1936 31. Handy Mandy in Oz, 1937 32. The Silver Princess in Oz, 1938 33. Ozoplaning w/ Wizard of Oz, 1939 34. The Wonder City of Oz, 1940 -- Runaway in Oz 35. The Scalawagons of Oz, 1941 36. Lucky Bucky in Oz, 1942 37. The Magical Mimics in Oz, 1946 -- How the Wizard Came to Oz 38. The Shaggy Man of Oz, 1949 39. The Hidden Valley of Oz, 1951 -- The Wicked Witch of Oz 40. Merry Go Round in Oz, 1963 -- The Disenchanted Princess of Oz Please feel free to add to this (I'm stumped on some of them...Like where could _Queen Ann_ or _Forgotten Forest_ go? And what other Buckethead books should be included??) or dispute any of my pairings... -- Dave ====================================================================== -- Dave **************************************************************************** Dave Hardenbrook, DaveH47@delphi.com, http://people.delphi.com/DaveH47/ "I like to define humor as the affectionate communication of insight." -- Leo Rosten, introduction to _Oh K*A*P*L*A*N, My K*A*P*L*A*N_ ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, SEPTEMBER 21 - 22, 1998 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 13:48:24 -0400 From: The Katzbeck's Subject: Zoe's Wizard of Oz Place with RealPlayer Audio Clips Hello Oz Friends! By popular request, "Zoe's 'Wizard of Oz' Place" now features the complete collection of musical selections as heard on the "Wizard of Oz Motion Picture SoundTrack!" Hear all the songs in their entirety!! This really is a musical treat!! Also, new backdrops, backgrounds, and boarder backgrounds have been added which give the beauty to these pages that truly is Oz at it's magical best! We hope you enjoy this site as much as we do! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Thanks for keeping the spirit of the Wizard of Oz alive! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Sincerely, Teena Katzbeck Zoe's Wizard of Oz Place, http://user.cybrzn.com/~bigdadde/oz.html lullabyleague@hotmail.com ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 16:17:54 -0400 (EDT) From: "Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman" Subject: Inspiration for characters in Oz Bill, Inspiration for characters can come from anything, literally. In my own experience writing, I've created characters based on everything from people who just happen to be walking by, to to people and philosophies I don't like, to characters which have appeared in dreams. In addition, sometimes I've created characters not based on anyone or anything in particular, but because the new characters were needed for some reason. Several characters I've used recently are based on stuffed animals (they tend to acquire their own personalities around here), and many of my characters' sources were never explicitly thought out and are thus untraceable. If I get around to posting a few of my stories and songs (probably a few things which many people have already seen, such as "The Lovable Lizard of Logg" and "A Book about Modula-2") on my web site (http://www.musc.edu/~adelmaas), feel free to speculate on the origin of the characters. Happy New Year, everybody! Aaron Aaron Solomon (ben Saul Joseph) Adelman ףסוי לואש ןב המלש ןרהא adelmaas@musc.edu http://www.musc.edu/~adelmaas/ Pioneer Aviation ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 13:36:03 -0700 From: Bob Spark Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-20-98 > in Denmark, Kay is a male name, like Kay in Andersen's > "Snow Queen") Not only in Denmark, I believe. Wasn't there a "Sir Kay" in the Arthurian legends? Bob Spark ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 21:33:28 -0500 (EST) From: Jeremy Steadman Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-20-98 Oksy, I guess it's time for me to tone down my unqualified criticisms of RPT's work. I'll just leave it as, I prefer LFB. So saying, I'll shut up. Jeremy Steadman, kivel99@planetall.com http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Dimension/9619 ICQ# 19222665, AOL Inst Mssgr name kiex or kiex2 "A good example of a parasite? Hmmm, let me think... How about the Eiffel tower?" ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 22:17:52 -0400 From: "J. L. Bell" Subject: irrelevant Oz Sender: "J. L. Bell" Dave Hulan wrote: <> Aha! We're looking at the book from different ends. You're considering whether Es are R to the final resolution; I'm considering whether they're R to the initial goal. Both our gauges seem to be R to the issue. That they don't match up shows the disjunction in the middle of this book's plot. About animals speaking outside Oz, Dave Hulan wrote: <> I recall a mention of this theory before. Does Baum ever make any similar significant distinction between birds and mammals? If he did, I'd be more willing to take this as a likely answer. About the Tin Woodman Ruth Berman wrote: <> Is it ANNOTATED WIZARD that points out Denslow colored Nick's joints differently from the tin parts of his body, which hints they might be iron, which explains why they rust so quickly, and which allows for him to become magnetic? Dave Hulan wrote: <> Armies in the 19th century and earlier often wore different uniforms for their different assignments (infantry, cavalry, artillery, sharpshooters, musicians) or just because they wanted to be more stylish than ordinary troops (e.g., zouaves). Experienced military reenactors can even identify different Napoleonic-war-era British infantry uniforms from a distance. So we may not be able to assume Ozma's privates all dressed the same. Also, Ozma may have had three privates in her army only during her first, brief period of interventionism, then decommissioned all the officers and privates but Omby Amby. The Guardian of the Gates would have been a natural choice to defend the home front, patrolling the same areas he guarded before and after his enlistment. Dave Hardenbrook, I love that Douglas Adams quote! Makes me want to publish several best-sellers just to be able to tell someone that. A couple of comments on these pairings: <<34. The Wonder City of Oz, 1940 -- Runaway in Oz . . . 39. The Hidden Valley of Oz, 1951 -- The Wicked Witch of Oz 40. Merry Go Round in Oz, 1963 -- The Disenchanted Princess of Oz>> I consider the first two "non-canonical" titles, along with the Thompson, McGraws, and Martin titles published by the IWoOC, to be canonical enough to warrant discussion on their own. Those all share with DISENCHANTED PRINCESS another quality important to scheduling: they're longer than most Books of Wonder and Buckethead titles, meaning they'd require more time for reading and discussing. That said, please mark me down as someone decidedly lukewarm on making non-canonical titles a formal part of BCF discussions. This should seem odd from the person who first brought up MAGIC DISHPAN when we discussed LOST PRINCESS. But it strikes me as one thing to allow such mentions of other books, and another to encourage discussing them as a formal aspect of this informal group. Obviously, no one will be forced to read the non-canonical books or the comments about them. Nevertheless, it seems wiser to treat them as a garnish for our main course than as a side dish. J. L. Bell JnoLBell@compuserve.com ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 04:42:04 +0000 From: Scott Olsen Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-20-98 Atticus wrote: "Of course, since Neill apparently didn't pick >which of his pictures would be plates, we can't chalk that phenomenon up to >his credit." I am of the understanding that Neill knew which illustrations were going to be plates (there had to be 12 of them, after all), and he drew them knowing that color artwork would be added later. Of course this doesn't take into account the books where Neill supplied watercolors. And speaking of _Lost Princess_ plates, I've always liked the one where Dorothy is bouncing along the Merry Go Round mountains. This is one of Neill's few plates that shows action. Re: "Received the following question from the I'net. Anyone on the digest >have an answer? How did L. Frank Baum get the idea for the characters Tin Man , >Flying Monkeys, and the Wicked Witch of the West?? For goodness sake, just don't say the election of 1900 or the gold standard had anything to do with it!! Scott Olsen ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 01:54:42 -0400 (EDT) From: Ozmama@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-20-98 Atticus' suggestion is actually the best one possible. People who have read them will post and discuss, and that's all. People who have not read them will, of course, not be able to post anything, but they may gain insight into them. After all, isn't this what we're already doing? I mean, not everybody on the Digest has read the entire FF, so the same situation will apply.>> Sorry, but I still think it's a poor idea. I would feel very awkward making any kind of negative comment about a book whose author subscribed to the *Digest,* even if the author said it was o.k. Not everyone on the *Digest* uses the very best possible judgment all of the time. (There, I've actually gone and said it!) Also, the Oz community is quite tightknit, sometimes, so even if the author isn't one of the subscribers, word could easily get back to her/him anyway. Much safer discussing the works of Baum and RPT. Btw, when we get to *Merry Go Round* and *Wicked Witch,* I'll feel the same way. (Of course that may not happen for thirty years and, by then, that particular problem may well have resolved itself.) Also, I don't agree that because some people on the *Digest* haven't read the entire FF equates to the same thing as excluding those who haven't read the ephemera if the ephemera is to be treated as a BCF. If it's mentioned only in passing, that's not a problem, but my bet is that there will be more than passing commentary once we start "mentioning" these books. I fear we're biting off more than we should try to chew. I'm sorry to seem so disagreeable, but this worries me and I hope some of you reconsider. It's almost inevitable that someone will be hurt, and it's unrealistic to count on our all having only positive things to say. We can't expect poor Dave to edit our more unpleasant comments, either.--Robin ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 02:20:19 -0400 From: Richard Bauman Subject: Today's Oz Brief Sender: Richard Bauman Goodbye All. I'm off to Oahu to see if Oz is there. Back 1 Oct. Regards, Bear (:<) ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 15:41:43 +0000 (GMT) From: David Hulan Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-20-98 Atticus: > Of course, since Neill apparently didn't pick >which of his pictures would be plates, we can't chalk that phenomenon up to >his credit. Is that true? I know that he didn't color them (except for the watercolors in _DotWiz_ and _Emerald City_, but I thought he drew them intending some to be colored and some not. Do you have definite information on that? Ruth: In terms of how frogs move, I don't think the Frogman could have walked erect in the first place, so his growth in size must have also affected the articulation of his joints, and there's no indication in the book that he wouldn't have been able to toss Scraps up to the cage. We know Hip Hopper was able to throw Scraps completely over a "very high" fence; presumably it was more than 12 feet high, or he could just have lifted her to where she could grab the top and wouldn't have had to throw her at all. And we can tell by the number and size of the people involved in the "pyramid act" that the cage couldn't have been more than about 30 feet above the center of the dome; with the help of zosozo the Frogman should have been able to toss Scraps that high quite easily. Thanks for the information on Kay Nielsen - I don't think I've seen any of his art, at least based on the titles you and Robin cited, and if I have it was long enough ago that I have no recollection of how it looked. It was nickel, not zinc, that Nick was later plated with. That he was basically made of some other material and just tin-plated is an intriguing idea, and would explain why he'd rust. On the other hand, Ku-Klip is known as a tinsmith, not a blacksmith, and would need much more elaborate forging equipment to make complex parts out of iron or steel, plus some means of applying tinplate to it. Could be, though. Michael: Fruit flies can be mutated by radiation, although it much more commonly kills them. Most of the mutations that are worked with in the laboratory are chemically induced, though. At least, this is what I read in a recent book on the subject. > Don't forget the supporters of James (VI)? of Scotland (later James I >(II?) of England) were called "Jacobites". Actually, the Jacobites were the supporters of James II and VII and later the Stuart Pretender "James III and VIII". But the literature of the reign of James I and VI is called "Jacobean." The name "James" is considered a corruption of "Jacob," and when they gave the name its Latin form (as on coins) it was "Jacobus Rex." J.L.: >Ojo inadvertently stumbled onto a classic moral question: Is it okay for >parents to steal bread to feed their children? For him to answer no, "Only >wicked people steal," shows little ethical sophistication. Especially when >he'd previously taken something that he'd been warned he wasn't allowed to >take (akin to stealing) and justified it as a matter of life and >death--that shows even less [shall we say?] perspective. Well, he's only about 10 years old, too; not many kids that age have much ethical sophistication. Even if we assume that lack of physical aging doesn't interfere with mental maturing - somewhat questionable, since the mortal kids in Oz seem to continue acting like pre-teen children throughout the series - Ojo would still only have been maybe 13 or 14 at the time of _Lost Princess_, if we accept Thompson's statement that he was born some time after Ozma's accession. Bill: > How did L. Frank Baum get the idea for the characters Tin Man , >Flying Monkeys, and the Wicked Witch of the West? How does any fantasy writer get the ideas for his characters? If Baum ever gave any indication of the sources of his characters I haven't heard of it, but maybe Ruth or Peter Hanff or Robin or Steve has; they know more about what's been learned about Baum's life than I do. The Wicked Witch of the West is pretty much a standard fictional witch, not notably different from the one in "Hansel and Gretel," for instance; Baum was more innovative with his good witches. Robin: I agree that many of the IEs are the best parts of the books they appear in, whether by Baum or Thompson or others. Utensia is surely about as irrelevant to the plot of _Emerald City_ as it could be, but it's still my favorite chapter in the book. Similarly for the Land of Good Children in MGR, which may be my single favorite bit in the entire FF. However, Thompson did get into a bit of a rut with some of hers, especially in the early-middle books (roughly from _Cowardly Lion_ through _Jack Pumpkinhead_), where the characters were invariably sent into two to four bizarre little city-states where the inhabitants want to make the characters just like them, and the only thing the characters need to do is get back out on the other side to continue their journey. >David: "I don't think the idea was for the Emerald City to come out circular >when bound into a book on the endpapers. That elongated shape is the >standard cut for emeralds (it's called the "emerald cut," when used for >other jewels), and would be natural for the Emerald City."" I don't think so, >David. According to the Home Shopping Club (the ultimate source, no?) >the emerald cut is rectangular...longer than it is wide. Well, yes, that's what I said, isn't it? (The cut isn't strictly rectangular; the corners are beveled so it's more eight-sided, though four of the sides are very short.) Dave: Do you think _Locasta_ will be published by the time we get to _Giant Horse_? I'll have to reread _Ice King_; I don't recall its relevance to _Lost Princess_ (other than that Ozma is kidnapped again; is that it?). _Queen Ann_ would obviously have best fit with _Tik-Tok_, but we've passed that already. It might be a reasonable fit with _Shaggy Man_, and that one doesn't have an associated non-canonical book on your list. _Forgotten Forest_ would tie in most closely with _Magical Mimics_, I think, but that would require moving _How the Wizard Came to Oz_ elsewhere. Maybe to _Scalawagons_, which also features the Wizard as an important character? Other Buckethead books that would be worth discussing include _Crocheted Cat_, _Bungle and the Magic Lantern_, and _Flying Bus_ at least, but where to discuss them is more questionable. CC would have fit best with _Road_ and BML with PG; FB doesn't really relate to any of the canonical books that I can recall. It's been a while since I read it, but I don't remember its including any characters from the canonical books as major characters. David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 12:21:08 -0700 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz Signs that you have been playing too much D&D: You stay up nights comparing THAC0's of Schwarzenegger, Stallone, van Damme and Snipes. You check for Wandering Monsters before going to bed at night. At singles bars, your best pickup line is "Hey, baby, my reaction roll is all sixes". When somebody has bad luck, you think "too bad he missed his saving throw". You drive by local football practice and think what great 0-level militia your town has. Your refer to your friends as "henchmen" and your employees as "hirelings". Upon getting bad service from a restaurant, etc. you think "those @#$% NPC's!". You laugh at people who think all dice have six sides. After moving into a new home/apartment, you check for secret doors. Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 11:40:09 -0500 From: katie.monaghan@stmartins.com Subject: Visitors from Oz X-Engine: "TFS Engine Release 3.12 Build 132e" Hello, St. Martin's press is slated to publish a novel called Visitors from Oz, by Martin Gardner, this October, and I am writing to ask you how I can arrange to submit this book for review in the Ozzy Digest. Gardner is one of the leading experts on L. Frank Baum, and this book explores what might have been if Dorothy had not returned to Kansas. Anyhow, I'd love to see the book reviewed in the digest--do you do that, or does one of your members? Please let me know. Thanks, Katie Monaghan (212) 674-5151 X 207 katiemonaghan@stmartins.com [Has anyone heard of this novel? Shall I tell her to submit her review, provided it's framed by "spoiler" space? I would also be interested to know if this book tells "what might have been" if the Scarecrow had abdicated and Oz had been taken over by a dark-haired fairy princess who throws a lot of parties and wears poppies in her hair... :) -- Dave] ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 11:37:57 -0600 (CST) From: Ruth Berman Subject: ozzy digest Bill Wright: The question about how did "Baum get the idea for the characters Tin Man, Flying Monkeys, and the Wicked Witch of the West?" is a peculiar one. Why those particular characters out of the cast, I wonder, and why isn't it obvious to the questioner that the concept of "wicked witches" comes straight out of folklore? (The more interesting question might be how did Baum get the idea for the character of a Good Witch -- to which the answer might be his wife and his mother-in-law, and other women he could have met with an interest in feminism.) Maybe the questioner really did mean to ask "Where did he get the ideas for all the characters in the story," and an appropriate answer might be to suggest looking up the essays on the "Wizard" collected in Michael Patrick Hearn's "Critical Heritage" edition (and perhaps also MPH's annotations in his "Annotated Wizard of Oz" edition). I recall that various commentators have discussed the origins specifically of the Tin Woodman, although I don't recall if there are comments on winged monkeys. Robin Olderman: Like you, I feel reluctant to put in much time reading Oz pastiches generally. I read the ones that I expect to find enjoyable (because I know the writer's work, or because I've heard comments praising them -- or occasionally because the focus of the story sounds like an interesting topic regardless of whether the story itself is a good one). On the other hand, I don't mind if other people in the group discuss Oz stories I haven't read -- if the discussion makes them sound interesting enough, I might go try to get them after all -- and I don't recall that those in the group who hadn't read them objected earlier when there was discussion of Melody Grandy's work in connection with "Land" or Phyllis Karr's in connection with "Scarecrow." Dave Hardenbrook: In your list of pastiches with close connections to specific Oz books -- I don't think Neill's "Runaway" is particularly closer to "Wonder City" than to his other two Oz books. And although Cosgrove's "Wicked Witch" is fairly close to "Hidden Valley," having two full-length Oz stories to discuss together may be an uncomfortably large chunk. I'd suggest that that the post-R&L Oz books of R&L authors/artists should probably be tagged on to the main list for separate, individual discussion at the end. That would be two Thompsons, one McGraws, one Martin, and the one Neill and one Cosgrove. (It's looking awfully far ahead to ask about what order to take post-R&L-Oz things in, but perhaps after that little group of non- R&L-Oz by R&L-Ozians, we'd want to go on to Baum's other fantasy books, especially the borders-of-the-map group, and perhaps also "Queer Visitors." And maybe in connection with Baum's "Santa Claus" there'd be an interest in discussing Thompson's.) Ruth Berman ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 22 Sep 98 12:11:00 (PDT) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things NON-CANON BCFS: After reviewing comments of Digest members, here's the decision I've come to: The Quasi-Famous Six will be discussed after we finish the FF ( Probably around 2047 :) ) as I indicate below, but I will leave it up to Digest members to mention non-Canonical books when they think they're relevent for discussion/comment (as was done with _Magic Dishpan_)...I've decided not to impose "officially" any non-Canonicals for current discussion. 11. The Lost Princess, 1917 (Current) 12. The Tin Woodman of Oz, 1918 13. The Magic of Oz, 1919 14. Glinda of Oz, 1920 15. The Royal Book of Oz, 1921 16. Kabumpo in Oz, 1922 17. The Cowardly Lion of Oz, 1923 18. Grampa in Oz, 1924 19. The Lost King of Oz, 1925 20. The Hungry Tiger of Oz, 1926 21. The Gnome King of Oz, 1927 22. The Giant Horse of Oz, 1928 23. Jack Pumpkinhead of Oz, 1929 24. The Yellow Knight of Oz, 1930 25. Pirates in Oz, 1931 26. The Purple Prince of Oz, 1932 27. Ojo in Oz, 1933 28. Speedy in Oz, 1934 29. The Wishing Horse of Oz, 1935 30. Captain Salt in Oz, 1936 31. Handy Mandy in Oz, 1937 32. The Silver Princess in Oz, 1938 33. Ozoplaning w/ Wizard of Oz, 1939 34. The Wonder City of Oz, 1940 35. The Scalawagons of Oz, 1941 36. Lucky Bucky in Oz, 1942 37. The Magical Mimics in Oz, 1946 38. The Shaggy Man of Oz, 1949 39. The Hidden Valley of Oz, 1951 40. Merry Go Round in Oz, 1963 41. Yankee in Oz 42. The Enchanted Island of Oz 43. The Forbidden Fountain of Oz 44. The Ozmapolitan of Oz 45. The Wicked Witch of Oz 46. A Runaway in Oz And optionally _The Disenchanted Princess of Oz_ and (if it's published by then!) _Locasta and the Three Adepts of Oz_ will be discussed after that as the two FF-length non-canonicals. Discussion of _Zixi_ and other "Boarderland of Oz" books by Baum et. al. are also possibilities. OTHER SIGNS THAT YOU HAVE BEEN PLAYING TOO MUCH D&D: -- You play using the Oz characters as game characters (I've done this!) -- When you watch Carl Sagan's _Cosmos_ and he talks about the "Five Perfect Solids" of Pythagoras, you say, "Look! It's the D&D dice!" -- Dave ====================================================================== -- Dave **************************************************************************** Dave Hardenbrook, DaveH47@delphi.com, http://people.delphi.com/DaveH47/ "I like to define humor as the affectionate communication of insight." -- Leo Rosten, introduction to _Oh K*A*P*L*A*N, My K*A*P*L*A*N_ ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, SEPTEMBER 23 - 24, 1998 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 20:56:48 -0400 From: "J. L. Bell" Subject: Gardner and Hearn, Oz experts Sender: "J. L. Bell" Poor Bear--banished to a remote part of America! Spotted in Borders this afternoon: a 1998 Dover reissue of SEA FAIRIES. I didn't see if it had a Martin Gardner foreword or color plates. Atticus Gannaway and Scott Olsen, here's what Michael Patrick Hearn has written about John R. Neill's color plates in "An Illustrator's Illustrator," BAUM BUGLE, spring 1994, p. 30: Neill had little control over his pictures once they reached Reilly & Britton. He did not even color the color plates himself in most of the books; the printers generally took care of that by painting proofs of a dozen line drawings themselves. Neill did not always indicate which ones should be used, but left that decision to Reilly & Britton. So Neill sometimes chose his color plates, sometimes didn't; this passage is ambiguous about which was his usual working method. Responding to the e-mail from St. Martin's, Dave Hardenbrook wrote: <> Ms. Monaghan's preparing the publicity campaign for Martin Gardner's upcoming Oz/Wonderland book (Earl Abbe mentioned it in the Digest for 7 Jan 1998). She's hoping the Ozzy Digest has a process for reviewing new books. Having either learned your e-mail address from Gardner or found it on the Web, she doesn't know you've set up your mailbox to bounce every message with "Oz" in the subject to all of us. Here's what you can do, Dave: ask her to send you an advance reading copy, a press kit (if she's making one), and a published book when it's done, on the understanding that you'll report to us when the book is available, what it looks like, what it costs, and how it reads. In other words, you be the reviewer. If you don't want to do that task, I'm sure you won't lack for volunteers. Heck, I'll get in line now. Alternatively, if other Digest folks like this idea, you could invite Ms. Monaghan to e-mail you her copy for the publisher's press release or other written material promoting the book, which you'd forward through the Digest for all of us to enjoy. Finally, if you really want to press your luck with St. Martin's, you could tell Ms. Monaghan that the Ozzy Digest reviewing committee of, say, 75 people all need books! J. L. Bell JnoLBell@compuserve.com ====================================================================== Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 17:42:17 -0400 (EDT) From: LuVCHACHI@aol.com Subject: Aunt Jane's Nieces Question Hi, I have a quick question. I have a copy of the first book in the Aunt Jane's Nieces (Aunt Jane's Nieces) and the alst two pages are missing. I was wondering if any hear has a copy of this book. If you do could you please send me the last two pages? You can either scan them or type them. If you don't have a copy does anyone know where I can find the text to the book? If anyone has an answer to either of these questions I would REALLY appricaite it. Thank you! ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 10:13:47 -0400 From: Michael Turniansky Subject: Ozzy radiation.... You mean radium does NOT contain the "germ of life"? Uh-oh. what about all those radium capsules I've been taking for the last 93 years? --Mike "Glowing Green Shaggy Man" Turniansky ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 11:23:44 -0600 (CST) From: Ruth Berman Subject: ozzy digest Bob Spark: Yes, Kay, also occurs as a man's name in Britain. Besides the Arthurian Sir Kay, there's the example of the boy in John Masefield's "The Midnight Folk," another Kay, IIRC. J. L. Bell: I don't think Baum has any direct comments comparing the intelligences of birds and mammals, but I suppose it might be relevant that when Bilbil is getting disenchanted, it's a step closer to humanity to change from a four-legged critter to a two-legged bird. I don't really feel comfortable myself with the theory that birds (like Billina) can talk in places like Ev, but mammals (like Hank and Toto) cannot. For one thing, the Ev birds can't talk (or, at least, Nana is much surprised when Billina does), and it's hard to see why a magic that affects a bird from American washed in to Ev wouldn't also affect a bird in Ev. Then, too, there are Jim and Eureka as examples of mammals from outside Oz talking before they get into Oz. (Maybe David Hulan excluded them on the idea that they're directly under Oz when they start talking, and the magic of Oz might extend downwards -- but the maps show the territories of the Mangaboos etc. as being outside Oz as well as underground.) Maybe the extent of the spell on Oz varies from time to time based on factors unknown (a function of weather? passage of individuals over or near the desert? composition of the minerals underneath?), and sometimes there's a "flow" of magic spreading out from Oz into the Nonestic, and sometimes there isn't? (And places like Mo and the Forest of Burzee operate under enchantments of their own?) Atticus, Scott Olson, and David Hulan: I suspect that Neill "knew" which of his pictures would be printed as color plates in the sense that he indicated to R&L which pictures he thought would be most suitable to use that way, and the R&L staff usually followed his directions, but that he didn't know for sure, because sometimes (for reasons of format, I suppose?) they did some switching around. Bear: Have a good time in Oahu. Let us know if you get to Oz. Ruth Berman ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 12:04:59 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@iupui.edu Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-22-98 Last night's (9-22-98) episode of _HOLLYWOOD squares_ (featuring the late Florence Griffith Joyner) featured an incredibly cute contestant named Alex Burnelle (sp?--the host said it very quickly and I barely caught it). I only saw the end of it, but my dad said she said she collects vintage Oz books and mentioned the aprroaching centennial. She is from Los Angles, and she is not in the club directory. Do any Winkies know her? Scott -------------------------------------------- Scott Andrew Hutchins http://php.iupui.edu/~sahutchi Oz, Monsters, Kamillions, and More! Frances: I've led a pretty boring life compared to yours. Freddy [the neighbor]: Mine was pretty boring, too. I've just got a knack for picking out the interesting bits. --David Williamson _Travelling North_ Act Two Scene Three ====================================================================== Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 18:50:49 -0400 (EDT) From: Ozmama@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-22-98 Scott Olsen<> I believe, too, that Neill chose which illustrations would be color plates. The linework for his cp's is usually simpler than that of his b&w's. As for the actual color work, R&B/R&L had an excellent colorist. Neill would indicate briefly what he wanted, and that was about it. I have the originals for some of these plates and can find nothing more than a minimal notation or even no indication at all of color. Of course, there may have been some correspondence between Neill and the colorist that we're unaware of. The books that Neill did actual color work for, Emerald City for example, are, IMO, truly glorious. In Dorothy and the Wizard, the cloud fairies plate is nice and the plate with Ozma and Dorothy chatting is lovely. Ruth: Yes, in reading others' comments about the pastiches, I may discover that I want to read one. I was just concerned about actually "reviewing" them. All: You do realize, don't you, that there are, perhaps, only nineteen more months in which to save up for the Centennial Convention? I assume we'll be taking reservations by April of 2000. It is *not* too early to start a piggy bank (or whatever) for it. It'll be a spectacular convention. --Robin ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 00:14:21 -0400 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz Sender: Tyler Jones Martin Gardner and book: I've never heard of it, but I'll keep an eye out for this "alternative history". I've often conjectured an alternative history of a different flavor: what if Dorothy had never come to Oz in the first place? Jinjur would probably never have invaded the Emerald City. Tip, Jack Pumpkinhead and the Sawhorse would probably still be wandering around Oz, having all sorts of exciting adventures. Would Oz still be divided up between the various Witches, or would Glinda have ever moved against them? Would the Wizard still rule in EC? All kinds of possibilities... Oz and D&D: I've often thought about a D&D campaign based in Oz, but never got around to it. Bruce Gray once sent the Oz characters in GURPS format to the Digest. If you go to my Web Site, you might decide that a Cruenti Dei or Lords of the Earth game based on Oz is unpractical. Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 16:10:20 +0000 (GMT) From: David Hulan Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-22-98 Bob Spark: > Not only in Denmark, I believe. Wasn't there a "Sir Kay" in the >Arthurian legends? That's the spelling used in a lot of Arthurian stories, though I believe in the earliest texts it was spelled "Cei." That would be the spelling in either Latin or Cymric. Pronunciation the same, in any case. He was Arthur's foster brother. J.L.: >I recall a mention of this theory before. Does Baum ever make any similar >significant distinction between birds and mammals? If he did, I'd be more >willing to take this as a likely answer. I can think of a couple: in MMMo a rabbit tells TimTom that the white bird that had carried him across a chasm has no heart at all, and the Lonesome Duck's feet (and by implication all birds' feet) don't take root on the Magic Island in _Magic_. There aren't a lot of birds in Baum, so I can't think of any more examples. I didn't mean - though an inadvertent apostrophe changed what I did mean - that the Guardian's uniform would necessarily be like the one worn by the Soldier, but that like the Soldier, I'd expect the Guardian to wear some kind of uniform if he were part of the Army of Oz, and there's no indication in the text of any of the books I've checked that he did. In _Land_, for instance, the Guardian is described as being "dressed all in green," but a page or two later the Soldier is described as "wearing a green uniform"; that seems enough of an indication to me that the Guardian's green clothing didn't appear to be a uniform. Upon mature consideration, I think you and Robin are right that any formal discussion of non-canonical books (or at least non-deutero-canonical books) is probably a bad idea. Mention them where relevant, sure, but no scheduled discussion. Dave: I think Katie Monaghan's post was asking you if someone on the Digest would like to review _Visitors from Oz_, because she's handling the book's publicity for St. Martin's Press. I don't think she's got a review of her own to submit. We've had reviews of other Oz-related books on the Digest, so I'd assume there'd be no problem with someone writing such a review and posting it here. I'll volunteer to do one if she'll send me a review copy; I'll e-mail her directly on that. >-- When you watch Carl Sagan's _Cosmos_ and he talks about the "Five > Perfect Solids" of Pythagoras, you say, "Look! It's the D&D dice!" I've only played D&D once, and that was a long time ago - is there actually a tetrahedral die? I'd think that shape would be hard to roll. David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Thu, 24 Sep 98 14:20:20 (PDT) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things GARDNER'S BOOK: Thanks to everyone who E-mailed me and pointed out what Ms. Monaghan is really asking for in her message...Many of you expressed an interest in doing this, but it appears that David Hulan directly contacted her, so I guess he will be doing it...Unless anyone else wants to E-mail her and ask to be a "second opinion" reviewer... -- Dave ====================================================================== -- Dave **************************************************************************** Dave Hardenbrook, DaveH47@delphi.com, http://people.delphi.com/DaveH47/ "I like to define humor as the affectionate communication of insight." -- Leo Rosten, introduction to _Oh K*A*P*L*A*N, My K*A*P*L*A*N_ ] c/ \ /___\ *** THE OZZY DIGEST, SEPTEMBER 25 - 28, 1998 *** |@ @| | V | \\\ |\_/| | ;;; \-/ \ ;/ >< ] ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 00:22:41 -0400 From: Tyler Jones Subject: Oz Sender: Tyler Jones David Hulan: There is indeed a tetrahedral die (four sides, for those who have not yet had basic Latin). As you noted, you can't really roll it. You simply toss it in the air and come what may. Tyler Jones ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 08:55:52 -0400 From: "J. L. Bell" Subject: when animals speak of Oz Sender: "J. L. Bell" Thanks, Ruth Berman and Dave Hulan, for thoughts and examples of when animals outside Oz and Mo talk. As I understood Dave's earlier statement, he wrote only about animals in Ev, its neighbor Rinkitink, and the Nome-controlled mountains. Thus, the Mangaboo experience of Jim, Eureka, and the piglets doesn't apply. On the other hand, Ruth is correct that if <> speak, we should infer Evian avians don't talk. So we have several categories to account for in some consistent fashion: local mammals (goats besides Bilbil), local fowl (chickens besides Billina), American mammals (Hank), American fowl (Billina), enchanted mammals (Bilbil), and Ozian mammals (Hungry Tiger). Ruth wrote that RINKITINK may imply <> That's the only example of a bird seeming "above" mammals that I could recall, but the same passage would imply that sheep are smarter than goats. Baaaa, humbug! Dave brought up two other possible examples of mammal/bird distinctions: <> The former seems like an individual trait, perhaps just a metaphor (though in Mo we can never tell); other birds in MO are helpful. As for the Lonesome Duck, it seems clearly to be a "Magician Duck," in Cap'n Bill's words; if I were an ordinary bird, I sure wouldn't take its example to mean I could alight on that island. That still leaves me thinking that speech codes should apply to all animals equally. Where else in Baum's books do we find information on animal speech? JOHN DOUGH tells us that on Phreex different animals have different languages, so they can't speak to each other or to humans. LOST PRINCESS says that the Frogman's words come out as a croak to the Ferryman, while the Ferryman's words sound like a mumble to the Frogman. But magic doesn't just transform all animal utterances into what humans hear as words: Toto, Billina, Hank, and other animals still bark, cluck, and heehaw in [with?] their own tongues. There's no getting around that there's some variation in where and when animals can talk. Barring simple authorial inconsistency, Ruth suggested several reasons: <> Billina may thus have floated through an area in the Nonestic where animals develop the power of speech. [I'm not comfortable with an Ozocentric view that such magic has to derive from Oz's spell; since that spell was created by Lurline, the primary center of magic on the continent seems to be Burzee.] Other possible explanations: 1) The animals in Ev, Rinkitink, Noland, and other places where they don't talk may not be as smart as animals from America. That explains why a human morphed into the shape of an animal (Bilbil) can speak where other goats can't. But there's no evidence of that intelligence gap besides Billina's contempt. 2) The animals in Ev, etc. don't *want* to talk. I call this the FREDDY THE PIG solution, after the series in which animals on one farm have decided at last to talk to their farmers and each other. But that's basically a conspiracy theory, and thus hard to believe over a long time. 3) The fault, dear brutes, lies not in the animals but in ourselves. Animals in Ev, etc. can talk, but the people there (like the Ferryman) can't understand them. Nevertheless, the Hungry Tiger manages to give his dinner order to Nana! 4) Authorial inconsistency. Tyler Jones wrote: <> I think you're right on Jinjur, and that Oz would indeed still be divided by the stalemate among Glinda, the Wizard, and the Wicked Witches. But would Tip have left Mombi in the same circumstances that LAND describes? Would Jack and the Sawhorse even exist? Mombi made a deal with the Wizard to hide Princess Ozma. She reared Tip for several years, and we all know a boy is not the least troublesome creature in the world. She seems to have lived those years as a simple village witch, having done her worst magic (Pastoria, Pajuka, Orin, Quiberon) years before. So why did Mombi suddenly decide to make Tip a marble statue? The obvious change in her situation is that the Wizard has left Oz; she may well no longer feel an obligation to him, or threat from him, when it comes to looking after the boy. If the Wizard were still in the Emerald City, Tip might still be with Mombi--or might have found another reason and another time for leaving. J. L. Bell JnoLBell@compuserve.com ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 22:00:58 -0400 (EDT) From: Ozmama@aol.com Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-24-98 In a message dated 98-09-24 18:20:57 EDT, you write: << Neill had little control over his pictures once they reached Reilly & Britton. He did not even color the color plates himself in most of the books; the printers generally took care of that by painting proofs of a dozen line drawings themselves. Neill did not always indicate which ones should be used, but left that decision to Reilly & Britton. >> I find this a bit confusing. Does it mean that Neill didn't always indicate which of the printers' proofs he preferred? That makes more sense than Neill's not knowing which of his drawings were going to be colored. If you contrast his black and white linework with that of the plates that have color (within the same book, of course) I think you'll notice some difference. I'll have to check that further on my own, I s'pose. It intrigues me. Always a new Oz mystery around the next corner, isn't there! David Hulan: Did you beat out the rest of us as reviewer for the Gardner book? I thought of e-mailing her myself, but then thought that since she'd asked Dave, it should be he who responded. Now I'm sorry that I didn't "go for it"! I wonder if it's really Baum's *Visitors...* with a Gardner intro. Martin's been under the weather for quite a while now, so I'll be surprised (and delighted!) if he's actually written a new book. Let us know, ASAP, please. I wish I had the time to do something mindless and comforting like read an Oz book right now. Gotta go grade more essays. Ugh! --Robin ====================================================================== Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 00:11:10 -0400 (EDT) From: "James R. Whitcomb" Subject: For Ozzy Digest Hello everyone, Does anyone know the status of getting an L.Frank Baum postage stamp to fruition in the next year or so in celebration of the 100 anniversary of his book, "The Wonderful Wizard of Oz"?? I remember receiving info from the IWOC on this a couple years ago, but never heard anymore about it. I sure hope the USPS recognizes him as deserving a stamp. If not, is there anything "we" can do to make this happen?? Jim Whitcomb. ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 09:47:15 -0600 (CST) From: Ruth Berman Subject: ozzy digest I was sorry to see in the news Friday that Francelia Butler, the founder of the academic journal "Children's Literature," died. The obituary notice described as among several examples of her memorable classes in children's literature the time she invited the Wicked Witch of the West (aka Margaret Hamilton) to come speak. (The text of the speech was later printed in an issue of CL, and I think reprinted in the "Bugle.") She also published reviews and articles on Oz in the journal. Before that, there had been a couple of academic studies of Oz in an "American Studies" context, but librarians and academics interested in children's literature were still sticking to the idea that the Oz books were beneath notice -- I think Butler may have been the first one to take academic notice of the Oz books in a kidlit context. Robin Olderman: I think you're right that the color plates usually have simpler line work than most of Neill's b&w fullpagers. Something I've noticed in some of the books (the later ones, I think), is that the color plates often duplicate a b&w drawing, showing the same scene from a different point of view. I would imagine that Neill was getting rumblings about the possibility of dropping the color plates eventually. Ruth Berman ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 16:08:02 +0000 (GMT) From: David Hulan Subject: Re: Ozzy Digest, 09-24-98 Ruth: Billina isn't the only case of a bird talking in Ev; there's the sparrow who speaks to Kiki Aru after he steals the coin just before he meets Ruggedo. And sparrows certainly don't have the endurance to fly across the Deadly Desert, so it's improbable that the sparrow had been in Oz proper. As for Eureka and Jim (and the piglets, for that matter) talking before they get into Oz, Oz is far from the only place where animals can talk in Baum's fantasy world. There's Mo, Burzee, Foxville, Dunkiton, Mifket Island, the Laughing Valley of Hohaho - and, apparently, the underground countries encountered in _DotWiz_. Dave: I've E-mailed Ms. Monaghan, but haven't heard anything back from her so far. And anyone else who's interested in reviewing the book should certainly feel free to contact her as well; just because I took it upon myself to volunteer shouldn't rule out alternates. David Hulan ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 12:33:53 -0500 (EST) From: sahutchi@iupui.edu Subject: Oz Book Rejection Letter Here is what I got from Linda Chester and Associates [with my own translations]: Thank you for the opportunity to review _Tip of Oz_. We now have had the chance to seriously consider it. [from two chapters? I don't think so!] [The print is larger here.] While we feel your project shows stong promise [we don't want to put you down], on closer consideration [based on what little we know of it], we feel that it is not right for us [it was lame]. Clearly, you are a talented writer with a gift for storytelling [you're no artist]. I am impressed with your ability to expand on Baum's creation [you're a cheap imitator]--your unusually vivid characters [I didn't tone down Aubrey enough from her real-life counterpart, even after ignoring her (Aubrey Marie Donadlson's--who said she didn't care so long as there was no nudity or sex, particularly since she can'r prove anyhting) infatuation with cross-dressers] remain true to his original vision [this is not a new contribution to the field of literature]. Unfortunately, however, the fantasy genre lies outside our realm of expertise and, consequently, we cannot give your project the enthusiasm it deservres. [We want to ghettoize you as a writer of fantsy. This is a simple genre piece and nothing more.] [The font returns to its original size here.] No doubt our prognosis of your work will come as a disappointment, but as you are well aware, these tend to be subjective [we hated it] and other agencies [for routine/bad/conventional/sword & sorcery/next-to-naked warriors type fantasy/beach reading/mindless junk] may find gold therein [it is in the realm of popular/bad/low art literature, not quality writing.] I wish you luck in placing it elsewhere. [being cordial] Warmly, [somehow only John Fricke sounds honest when he uses this closing] Joanna Pulcini I write it this way because it seems the point was to ghettoize my work to the fantasy shelf. Many writers have strong fantastic/SF elements in their work and still have it classed and shelved with fiction and literature, rather than a genre piece, and I think if they had seen wthe work as a whole, they might have agreed my work goes there, instead. I really disliked breaking the book up, and I think, perhaps, if they saw different chapters, they might have had a different view of the work altogether. It would have been strange if the first agent had accepted it anyway, so I don't want anyone to think of this cynicism as a gripe, but it seems to reek of haughtiness against my venue of expression, but I imagine any other agent would require that I not send the whole work, so that they may misjudge it as well. I'd like to try again, but unfortunately, I don't have access to _Literary Marketplace_ for information on another agent. The cover letter was retained while the title page and chapters were returned to me unmarked. I sometimes wonder if I should send them different chapters to reasses the work, but I'm not sure that would get me anywhere. Scott ----------------------------- Scott Andrew Hutchins http://php.iupui.edu/~sahutchi Oz, Monsters, Kamillions, and More! Frances: I've led a pretty boring life compared to yours. Freddy [the neighbor]: Mine was pretty boring, too. I've just got a knack for picking out the interesting bits. --David Williamson _Travelling North_ Act Two Scene Three ====================================================================== Date: Mon, 28 Sep 98 13:22:08 (PDT) From: Dave Hardenbrook Subject: Ozzy Things PROPOSED NEWSGROUP: soc.history.what-if.oz :) Seriously, how would things have been different had Dorothy never come to Oz? Perhaps in an ultimate irony, Tip would have gone to the Wizard (the very guy responsible for his current position) and asked him to free him from Mombi. Then the Wizard would have said, "Kill the Witch of the West"! And so then perhaps Tip would have done some liquidating! Meanwhile, Glinda finds out the truth about Ozma, gets the other powerful Nonesticans from Zixi to Zurline to rally behind her, and the witches get crushed and Ozma takes the throne(???) But the Scarecrow remains on his beanpole, the Tin Man remains rusted, and the Cowardly Lion remains cowardly. Not fun. Some more "What-If"s: WI the Wizard had never come to Oz? WI Reera took an interest in outside affairs? WI the Adepts had been "around" during the Wizard's reign? WI Dorothy's house missed? WI the WWW had encountered Singra's water-nymph and been rendered H2O-proof? WI Dorothy had gone with the Wizard in the balloon? WI There had been no Marvelous Powder of Life? WI Billina hadn't been with Dorothy in Ev? WI the Wizard had never returned to Oz? WI there had been no Fountain of Oblivion? BCF: The _Lost Princess_ discussion appears to have wound down... Anyone ready to set a date for _Tin Woodman_? -- Dave ====================================================================== -- Dave **************************************************************************** Dave Hardenbrook, DaveH47@delphi.com, http://people.delphi.com/DaveH47/ "I like to define humor as the affectionate communication of insight." -- Leo Rosten, introduction to _Oh K*A*P*L*A*N, My K*A*P*L*A*N_